Jump to content


Photo

Meanwhile In Afghanistan


  • Please log in to reply
330 replies to this topic

#281 Dark_Falcon

Dark_Falcon

    The Stryker's Friend

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,295 posts

Posted 15 April 2019 - 1518 PM

But is it available gift wrapped?

 

Only at the Internet Research Agency gift shop in St. Petersburg.  :D


  • 0

#282 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,251 posts

Posted 06 May 2019 - 1459 PM


  • 0

#283 Paul G.

Paul G.

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 8,698 posts

Posted 23 August 2019 - 0830 AM

Son of Massachusetts.
Son of California.
Sons of America.

🇺🇸 Master Sgt. Luis F. Deleon-Figueroa, 31, Chicopee, MA

🇺🇸 Master Sgt. Jose J. Gonzalez, 35, La Puente, CA

We say your names.
We will remember you.

#HonorThem
  • 0

#284 JasonJ

JasonJ

    nonbiri

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 12,510 posts

Posted 04 December 2019 - 0944 AM

Physician, Tetsu Nakamura, gunned down along with 5 other Afghans. He's been in Afghanistan doing the humanitarian work since 2008.
Spoiler
https://mainichi.jp/...00m/0na/071000c

Edited by JasonJ, 04 December 2019 - 0944 AM.

  • 0

#285 Brian Kennedy

Brian Kennedy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 5,673 posts

Posted 09 December 2019 - 1744 PM

Well, then. https://www.washingt...tial-documents/


  • 0

#286 DKTanker

DKTanker

    1strdhit

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 26,689 posts

Posted 09 December 2019 - 2042 PM

Deep State has some 'splaining to do. And yes, the Deep State. If we've learned nothing else during the three year nightmare that is the deep state war on Trump, we have learned that NOTHING is done without their approval and guidance.


  • 0

#287 Brian Kennedy

Brian Kennedy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 5,673 posts

Posted 10 December 2019 - 1851 PM

Well, it was an elected Republican president and his hand-picked cabinet (maybe they were Deep State? Was Deep State around back then?) who framed the Afghan war as an attempt to make Afghanistan be a nice place instead of just a punitive raid against Al Qaeda, and the media (are they Deep State? I hear that sometimes, not sure) who obtained the documents and published them, which frankly make the Obama administration look almost as bad as Bush's with regards to the whole thing (I'm discounting Trump out of charity but it's not like he's done very much to get us out).

 

Or could it be, gasp, the military who has a sh*t-ton of blame for this (are they Deep State? Sometimes they get that too, but only the generals and stuff).


Edited by Brian Kennedy, 10 December 2019 - 1903 PM.

  • 0

#288 Brian Kennedy

Brian Kennedy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 5,673 posts

Posted 10 December 2019 - 1914 PM

But back to the real world, I really do think it shows that that Afghanistan is yet another example of how U.S. counter-insurgency doctrine is completely flawed. There are some corner-cases like Malaysia, the FARC, etc., but by and large, the presence of a large insurgency that the native government is unable to defeat indicates that the government (which almost always outnumbers and is better-funded than the insurgency) is incompetent and unpopular, and the only theoretical solution is to fix the government, which is basically impossible.


  • 0

#289 Calvinb1nav

Calvinb1nav

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 571 posts

Posted 10 December 2019 - 2001 PM

A prime example of the military's culture of can-do, failure-is-not-an-option biting us squarely in the ass...

 

 

As an aside, a fellow alum was a Provincial Reconstruction Team commander in Afghanistan about 4-5 years, so about 14-15 years into the war.  He takes his team into a valley in western Afghanistan near the Iranian border.  The locals thought he and his folks were Russians.  Never heard of 9-11 and didn't know there were any Americans in the country.  This is 14-15 years after we arrived there!


Edited by Calvinb1nav, 10 December 2019 - 2001 PM.

  • 0

#290 JasonJ

JasonJ

    nonbiri

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 12,510 posts

Posted 10 December 2019 - 2009 PM

I guess they were illiterate or had no radio. And many small tribal groups keeps word from spreading around and to them.
  • 0

#291 DKTanker

DKTanker

    1strdhit

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 26,689 posts

Posted 10 December 2019 - 2051 PM

A prime example of the military's culture of can-do, failure-is-not-an-option biting us squarely in the ass...

 

State Department was equally deceptive.


  • 0

#292 Nobu

Nobu

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 4,659 posts

Posted 11 December 2019 - 0406 AM

The loss of face inherent to not declaring progress in Afghanistan may be a denominator shared by the agencies responsible for it.
  • 0

#293 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Just Another Salisbury Tourist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 59,383 posts

Posted 11 December 2019 - 0420 AM

There is a very good case for saying the reasons for stagnation in Afghanistan are purely political, and very little to do with the military. Lets see.

 

2001. A stunning victory in Afghanistan. A commitment to stay, a drawndown in resources to commit to Iraq, followed by Taliban resurgence.

2006 A ramping up of resources in Afghanistan, progress is slowly made, followed by indifference and stagnation.

2008 A new president, a quick ramp up in resources to ensure victory, then an even quicker drawdown, followed by stagnation and Taliban progress.

2017 A new President, promises to win in Afghanistan, ramping up of resources, followed by cold feet, a promise to withdraw and a commitment to talks with the Taliban.

 

There is a pattern there, and its an inability to find a workable strategy, stick with it, and resource it. Ill give credit to the Pentagon in the  Vietnam war, they only ramped up and drew down once. In Afghanistan its been several times. And people want to hang this albatross around the neck of the military? They have surely made mistakes, but if they dont have the troops and resources to do the job that politicians after all dumped on them, what do people expect? They are generals, not fucking magicians.

 

I believe Afghanistan is still winnable. But we are now in essence in the post Tet phase, and nobody is interested anymore, because 911 is a long time ago. So we will withdraw, and probably the whole godawful mess will start again. In the modern era, you absolutely cannot leave failed states to themselves. Its proven lethal, whether its Somalia, Iraq, Yemen, Beirut, Syria or Afghanistan.  But do we heed the message? No.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 11 December 2019 - 0421 AM.

  • 0

#294 JWB

JWB

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 8,202 posts

Posted 11 December 2019 - 1245 PM

 

A prime example of the military's culture of can-do, failure-is-not-an-option biting us squarely in the ass...

 

State Department was equally deceptive.

 

Foggy Bottom has little role to play so they must make things up in order to look important.


  • 0

#295 JWB

JWB

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 8,202 posts

Posted 11 December 2019 - 1305 PM

There is a very good case for saying the reasons for stagnation in Afghanistan are purely political, and very little to do with the military. Lets see.

 

I disagree sort of. The generals in the USA and USMC don't believe in nor do they understand defensive warfare which is what VN was and A-stan is. The result being failures to disrupt and interdict enemy movements across the respective borders.  Instead the command went pursuing "pacification".  In both wars such follies not only were useless but in some cases made things worse. 

 

 You are right in one sense. The US political system is rarely capable of putting an effective C-in-C in the White House. 


  • 0

#296 Daan

Daan

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,319 posts

Posted 11 December 2019 - 1405 PM

The failure in Afghanistan was also produced by the incompetence of the participating military forces. On the British deployment(s) to Helmand (and Basra) the academic David Ucko wrote a highly enlightening and pitiless analysis in his book: "Counterinsurgency in Crisis: Britain and the Challenges of Modern Warfare". Second examples of this book are cheap right now, I can really recommend it. Ucko is a fair and perceptive writer.


Edited by Daan, 11 December 2019 - 1418 PM.

  • 0

#297 Calvinb1nav

Calvinb1nav

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 571 posts

Posted 11 December 2019 - 1749 PM

 

A prime example of the military's culture of can-do, failure-is-not-an-option biting us squarely in the ass...

 

State Department was equally deceptive.

 

The State Department is completely, utterly broken and contributes little to the national welfare compared to the resources spent on them.  Virtually every treaty and trade agreement we've negotiated over the past 30-40 years has been heavily slanted against us.  


  • 0

#298 Panzermann

Panzermann

    REFORGER '79

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,956 posts

Posted 12 December 2019 - 0555 AM

 

they have also made a video:

 

 

 

Deep State has some 'splaining to do. And yes, the Deep State. If we've learned nothing else during the three year nightmare that is the deep state war on Trump, we have learned that NOTHING is done without their approval and guidance.

 

 

Well, it really is not new that there is an entrenched bureaucracy and the bureaucrats doing their own thing often. Whose idea was it to go into AFG? Not for catching bin Ladin, that has been handled pretty amateurish.

 

 

Then the engagement in the theatre like a sinus curve up and down not really having an idea. Well it keeps the Chinese and Russians out of Afghanistan. But not really as chinese firms are investing in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

 

 

 

And a tangent, the WaPo is owned by Bezos and Amazon got kicked out of the Pentagon cloud infrastructure deal. Hmmmmm. In case Amazon wins another big contract with the Pentagon is the Wapo to follow up on this story or are they going to conveniently forget it then?


  • 0

#299 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Just Another Salisbury Tourist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 59,383 posts

Posted 12 December 2019 - 0613 AM

 

There is a very good case for saying the reasons for stagnation in Afghanistan are purely political, and very little to do with the military. Lets see.

 

I disagree sort of. The generals in the USA and USMC don't believe in nor do they understand defensive warfare which is what VN was and A-stan is. The result being failures to disrupt and interdict enemy movements across the respective borders.  Instead the command went pursuing "pacification".  In both wars such follies not only were useless but in some cases made things worse. 

 

 You are right in one sense. The US political system is rarely capable of putting an effective C-in-C in the White House. 

 

 

They got it right, belatedly admittedly, in Iraq. And Id argue the threat they had to face in Iraq was probably worse than Afghanistan. In Afghanistan the threat is monopolar, large and skilled to be sure, but just one type of threat. In Iraq everyone whom wanted to be anyone had a militia. I suppose against that, we can say Petreus leveraged viable allies among the same population. In Afghanistan I get the impression everyone is waiting to see who wins before joining the winning side.

 

Occasionally you have circumstances when its necessary to have a President who can override the corporate advice of the Joint Chiefs, such as Kennedy during the Cuban missile crisis. But Ill be honest, I cant think of a single occasion since then when a President has rejected advice of the Joint Chiefs and succeeded as a result. They have been doing it all through the Afghan war. I really cant blame the generals when nobody in the White House seems focused on the problem or listening to advice.
 


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 12 December 2019 - 0614 AM.

  • 0

#300 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Just Another Salisbury Tourist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 59,383 posts

Posted 12 December 2019 - 0620 AM

The failure in Afghanistan was also produced by the incompetence of the participating military forces. On the British deployment(s) to Helmand (and Basra) the academic David Ucko wrote a highly enlightening and pitiless analysis in his book: "Counterinsurgency in Crisis: Britain and the Challenges of Modern Warfare". Second examples of this book are cheap right now, I can really recommend it. Ucko is a fair and perceptive writer.

Because we made the same mistakes. We have a whole history of counterinsurgency warfare, from Kenya, to Malaya, failures like Aden, to fall back on. We had and understood a system that, by and large, usually worked. And we threw it all away because we became a cog in the US military machine that was itself under resourced for the job it had to do, just as our military was under resourced in the job it had to do.

 

In ages past, we had statesmen that had been in the military, and had a perspective of how the military worked. They might not agree, but they could speak the same language. Today, we have a class of politicians that is almost entirely devoid of military service. They dont understand the arguments, they dont understand the requirements, and they have no understanding of military strategy. They dont really understand much other than setting the ground to remain in office another 4 or 5 years.

 

This is one of those occasions when I do have a fleeting sympathy for Jack D Ripper. Parody or not, his comments are descriptive of the world in which we now live, and its why we keep going wrong when we get involved in operations of this kind.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 12 December 2019 - 0621 AM.

  • 0