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#21 rmgill

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 0108 AM

Oh, dear it uses old proven technology that does what it's supposed to do? Obviously that's a problem.  :rolleyes:


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#22 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 0209 AM

I gather the nice thing about America's ICBM fleet, its so old, nobody can hack it. I take great comfort in that personally. :)


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#23 Burncycle360

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 1303 PM

It's not the old technology that's alarming (at least to me).  Could be worse, could be running on Windows 95 :D

It's that if the picture they've painted regarding poor upkeep and Navy-esque failure to adhere to procedure and protocols / conduct unbecoming (Fitzgerald) is even partially true, then that is concerning.  Makes you wonder just how widespread are these problems? What's even more concerning is that the average layperson would never hear about it, and when they DO it has to come from that obviously left leaning show...

Those are the sort of intangibles that are affected when the budget is meddled with too much or leadership isn't held accountable, even if there's no obvious outward change to the layperson (ie, congress)


Edited by Burncycle360, 10 June 2019 - 1308 PM.

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#24 Chris Werb

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 0943 AM

Oh, dear it uses old proven technology that does what it's supposed to do? Obviously that's a problem.  :rolleyes:

 

However well it works when it's working, it's a problem if no one can support it anymore.  A lot of aircraft, vehicles etc.have been retired down the years because parts ran out.


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#25 rmgill

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 1113 AM

I suspect that they could noodle up a contract for Texas Instruments, Intel, Microchip, Micron or other US semi-conductor manufacturers to spool up a production line for relevant parts. The methods for making those sorts of boards and components is trivial compared to what we have today (trace sizes aren't tiny) and mixing current design board fab which is just shy of loading software and hitting 'print'. You can find companies that will print and fab a PCB for you in as little as a few days. (https://www.4pcb.com).

When I worked at Daystar Digital, they had little old asian ladies there soldering replacement traces on boards to fix logic and conductor issues on their Accelerator cards to account for chip changes. They could turn consumer units around for a processor or bug fix in a day or two including testing. A mix of refurbing old boards, component repair, proof testing and rebuilds could easily be done if not entirely uncheaply.

It's really just a question of cost to make new vs designing a new system and getting it tested for security. This stuff MUST be secure. If it's not it's a huge mistake. Using current systems to make a secure control system with modern feature rich systems.....bad idea.

Edited by rmgill, 16 June 2019 - 1115 AM.

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#26 GregShaw

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 1224 PM

When I worked at Daystar Digital, they had little old asian ladies there soldering replacement traces on boards to fix logic and conductor issues on their Accelerator cards to account for chip changes. They could turn consumer units around for a processor or bug fix in a day or two including testing. A mix of refurbing old boards, component repair, proof testing and rebuilds could easily be done if not entirely uncheaply.
 

Wow, haven't heard anything about Daystar for about 2 decades. I so wanted one of their upgrade cards for my Mac IIci back in the day.


Edited by GregShaw, 16 June 2019 - 1225 PM.

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#27 DB

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 1524 PM

if you've never had anything to do with safety-critical electronics, you'd be amazed and appalled at how slow the development process is.

 

It's quite possible for the the time taken between laying out a schematic for a design and buying in the components for a good percentage of them to have gone out of production.

 

It doesn't seem to be unusual for defence companies to take over key suppliers just to keep obsolete items going, or at least compatible parts being developed.


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#28 Panzermann

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 1608 PM

if you've never had anything to do with safety-critical electronics, you'd be amazed and appalled at how slow the development process is.

 

It's quite possible for the the time taken between laying out a schematic for a design and buying in the components for a good percentage of them to have gone out of production.

 

It doesn't seem to be unusual for defence companies to take over key suppliers just to keep obsolete items going, or at least compatible parts being developed.

 

I remember reading NASA buying lots of old stocks of out of production chips for the space shuttles, because they could not realisti cally replace them because of these loooong processes. I guess they do for other projects as well to not risk to run out of parts for a deep space probe or some such.


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#29 rmgill

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 1205 PM

 

When I worked at Daystar Digital, they had little old asian ladies there soldering replacement traces on boards to fix logic and conductor issues on their Accelerator cards to account for chip changes. They could turn consumer units around for a processor or bug fix in a day or two including testing. A mix of refurbing old boards, component repair, proof testing and rebuilds could easily be done if not entirely uncheaply.
 

Wow, haven't heard anything about Daystar for about 2 decades. I so wanted one of their upgrade cards for my Mac IIci back in the day.

 

Yeah they had some sexy hardware in the day. The neatest I handled was the Nubus RAM disk card. 256 megs of ram max iirc, but you could parallel several of them, throw a basic system folder in it, set the RAM disk as a the start up drive and then boot off the ram Disk lightning fast. It was all that we get from SSD's today with bog standard RAM SIMMs. Net from a tech perspective, really cook for folks doing HEAVY computation between a data base file and ram. 

They were a touch disorganized however which is why I couldn't stand working for them for more than a month. 


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