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New Taiwan Sub Program, Design Phase Already Started

Taiwan Submarine

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#21 JasonJ

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 0428 AM


 
That's a Zwardviis clone:
 
Walrus%2Bsub%2Bside%2Bdiagram.png

That image looks like the Zwaardvis/Hai Long except for the x shaped fins. An evolutionary design proposal or is an image of a design for the new Taiwan sub?
 
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#22 Josh

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 0805 AM

There won't be a Taiwanese sub, so presumably the former.
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#23 RETAC21

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 0245 AM

 

 

 

 
That's a Zwardviis clone:
 
Walrus%2Bsub%2Bside%2Bdiagram.png

That image looks like the Zwaardvis/Hai Long except for the x shaped fins. An evolutionary design proposal or is an image of a design for the new Taiwan sub?
 

 

 

My guess is that they are reverse engineering their subs and adding a MESMA based plant.


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#24 JasonJ

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 0433 AM

There won't be a Taiwanese sub, so presumably the former.

 

 

That image looks like the Zwaardvis/Hai Long except for the x shaped fins. An evolutionary design proposal or is an image of a design for the new Taiwan sub?
 

 

 

My guess is that they are reverse engineering their subs and adding a MESMA based plant.

 

 

There was an interesting and very recent post about the Taiwanese sub program in the Submarine Matters blog which more or less thinks the reverse engineering idea is what is to come about, with the tech gaps filled in by external help: http://gentleseas.bl...-submarine.html


Edited by JasonJ, 14 April 2018 - 0434 AM.

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#25 chino

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 1054 AM

They've built a fighter jet, so they should be able to gather enough tech to build a sub... eventually?


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#26 JasonJ

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 0447 AM

They've built a fighter jet, so they should be able to gather enough tech to build a sub... eventually?


Yeah, just like with the fighter, I think they'll be able to make the sub in a similar way, by the mid 2020s I would guess.
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#27 JasonJ

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 2305 PM

Japanese retired sub experts to visit.

TAIPEI (Taiwan News) - Retired experts from Japan’s Mitsubishi and Kawasaki Heavy Industries will visit Taiwan next month to present a report on Taiwan’s domestic submarine program, reports said Tuesday.

Given that other countries are no longer prepared to supply the island nation with submarines due to pressure from China, the government of President Tsai Ing-wen (蔡英文) has been pursuing the local manufacturing of submarines, with 2024 as the date for the first inauguration.

However, Taiwan could still cooperate with foreign suppliers for key elements of the project, such as engine technology, the Liberty Times reported.

Retired specialists from the two Japanese companies had been invited by CSBC Corporation, Taiwan (台船) to come over to the island in September, train the necessary personnel and present a study report in October, Upmedia reported.

The shipbuilding company was hoping to sign the contract for the submarines next year, with NT$50 billion (US$1.6 billion) to NT$60 billion mentioned as its total value, the Liberty Times reported.

In addition, the shipyard had also agreed to build more than a dozen ships for Taiwan’s Coast Guard.

https://www.taiwanne...en/news/3511598
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#28 Josh

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 2353 PM

They've built a fighter jet, so they should be able to gather enough tech to build a sub... eventually?

 

For Mainland China, sure.

 

ETA: No one is going to trust any significant sub tech to Taiwan. They are just a Chinese provence waiting to happen, even assuming some random officer doesn't go rouge and give up the goat before that happens.


Edited by Josh, 22 August 2018 - 2355 PM.

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#29 2805662

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 0104 AM


They've built a fighter jet, so they should be able to gather enough tech to build a sub... eventually?

 
For Mainland China, sure.
 
ETA: No one is going to trust any significant sub tech to Taiwan. They are just a Chinese provence waiting to happen, even assuming some random officer doesn't go rouge and give up the goat before that happens.

Go rouge - as in become communist? Or go rogue and steal the tech? Either are bad, I guess.
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#30 Josh

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 0112 AM

If they do it out of ethnic nationalism, I guess that's different than doing it for economic gain. But either way, the probability is high. Taiwan basically exists so long as the US states that it exists. It's ability to defend itself at this point is negligible and pointless. Either the USN comes to the party or it doesn't; that's what determines whether Taiwan gets invaded/blockaded. If the US backs out; it is far more likely Taiwan cuts a deal...and no one wants to give them any tech. This situation is drastically exacerbated by my current president.


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#31 KV7

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 0121 AM

If they do it out of ethnic nationalism, I guess that's different than doing it for economic gain. But either way, the probability is high. Taiwan basically exists so long as the US states that it exists. It's ability to defend itself at this point is negligible and pointless. Either the USN comes to the party or it doesn't; that's what determines whether Taiwan gets invaded/blockaded. If the US backs out; it is far more likely Taiwan cuts a deal...and no one wants to give them any tech. This situation is drastically exacerbated by my current president.

IF the PRC invades Taiwan, it will want to do it quickly and cleanly. A big show of force, then a capitulation by the government, then a (from then on) peaceful reunification.


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#32 JasonJ

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 0255 AM

Even now, the US has remained committed to Taiwan's defense.

In the future, any attempt by China to capture Taiwan by force will trigger Japan's "collective self defense" IMO.
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#33 Nobu

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 1308 PM

Current Japanese political aims WRT the Taiwanese/Nationalist Chinese are probably less about becoming potentially entangled in a Third Sino-Japanese War, and more along the lines of Japan's historical success in manipulating different Chinese factions against each other in various ways.

 

Encouraging Chinese to bear arms against other Chinese in a manner beneficial to Japanese interests and destabilizing to Chinese interests is one thing. Whether the Taiwanese/Nationalist Chinese currently have anything to offer Japan and Japanese that may be worth the bones of a single Japanese grenadier is another, however.


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#34 Burncycle360

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 1237 PM

I always thought it was interesting that the de jure mainland government (in exile), who actually helped found the UN....

Gets kicked out of the UN and declared "not a county anymore" by the political and economic leverage of those who de facto controlled the mainland.

While China doesnt have the force projection capabilities to invade Taiwan and doesn't have the desire to plaster it, I do wonder just how far the US would go if it meant war with a major economic partner. As long as they don't go too overt they could probably go a long way without repercussion of force with sanctions and an economic blockade
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#35 Josh

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 0823 AM

It seems likely that would provoke a similar response from the US to Chinese trade. I'm assuming by 'economic blockade' you mean a purely diplomatic one; a military blockade is an act of war and given the USN CONOPS that already occur it is likely to be challenged in short order. It would be a contest of wills at that point, but I could see it hardening Taiwanese resolve and drastically eroding any support for reunification for a generation, so it would be a big gamble. This also doesn't seem like an ideal time to throw a wrench into China's economy either.
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#36 JasonJ

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 0746 AM

Taiwanese Liberty Times article about a retired Taiwanese submarine officer describing the next submarine to be something like a small version of the Japanese soryu-class diesel electric submarine.

〔即時新聞/綜合報導〕潛艦國造(IDS)完成首艘柴電潛艦設計圖,而海軍造船發展中心在IDS設計告一段落後,為參與官兵製作「鑰匙圈和領帶夾」,記念品圖騰標示著未來我國國造潛艦造型,退役潛艦軍官王志鵬取得後將圖片貼在網路上引起討論,外界推測,IDS造型可能就像縮小版的日本蒼龍柴電潛艦

根據《聯合報》報導,王志鵬分析,IDS艦艏外型為上橢圓下鈍的「雪茄型」,目前具有這種艦艏外型的柴電潛艦只有日本的蒼龍級,而蒼龍級之所以採用這樣的結構,除了降低潛艦體噪音之外,主要就是為了騰出空間容納球形的被動聲納,魚雷艙為了配合聲納空間,也要做出結構修改,魚雷管的位置和角度將會做出改變,魚雷艙內部裝填與儲存的方式都和先前的劍龍級潛艦不同,因此人員也需要重新訓練。

王志鵬指出,IDS艦體上方的「帆罩」前緣,呈現梯形、滑順線條,這也和蒼龍級和德國海軍所使用的「212」類似,這項改變代表「增強流體力學,以降低噪音」,同時帆罩內部的各桅管和裝備也必須重新設計。王志鵬認為,從外形結構來看,IDS存在著「日本」與「德國」的技術因子;但由外型觀察,看不出是否有採用日本蒼龍級配備的的「舷側被動測距陣列聲納」和艦艉的「被動式拖曳聲納」。

http://news.ltn.com....ingnews/2684384

 

The same officer uploaded pictures of souvenirs to his Facebook account which apparently are these.

taiwansub1.jpg

 

taiwansub2.jpg

 

taiwansub3.jpg

 

taiwansub4.jpg

Spoiler

https://www.ettoday....127/1367024.htm


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#37 Nobu

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 1712 PM

He could have uploaded action figures from SeaQuest DSV for all the good it would have done, as their current improved Gato class and ancient U.S. Navy Mk. IV Torpedo Data Computer technology appear perfectly sufficient for the limited set of tasks and responsibilities entrusted to them.


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#38 JasonJ

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 0837 AM

Model of prototype submarine at a ceremony where the sub is to be built. Is to be "viable" in 5 years with first production sub a year and a half after that.

protosub.jpg

Spoiler

http://focustaiwan.t...zBYiuKw.twitter


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#39 TTK Ciar

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 1146 AM

Interesting! Nice to see a first look.

At first I thought its proportions seemed odd, but comparing it to other attack submarines, it's not that different. I think the thickness of the aft section and sudden taper to stern was throwing me off.

Here's a close-up of that model vs Russian Akula. Significant differences, but also significant similarities of proportion:

naval.korea.submarine.prototype_and_akul

Edited by TTK Ciar, 12 May 2019 - 1146 AM.

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#40 Josh

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 1458 PM

Pipe dream, IMO.
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