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#21 Stevely

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 2253 PM

Bruce Schneier weighs in on Windows Vista DRM.
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#22 Corinthian

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 0611 AM

Bruce Schneier weighs in on Windows Vista DRM.



If MS starts sending releases that they will no longer support WinXP versions, then I might just go Linux (Mac is too expensive - around a third more expensive than a similar performing PC over here).

One person who made a comment on that page says he sees Vista to become an ME.
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#23 Ivanhoe

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 0923 AM

Even though Win2k Server was replaced by 2003 Server and Win2k Workstation was replaced by XP, it seems Microsoft will provide basic security updates thru 2010. New versions of stuff like IE will no longer be available. This raises the question of how long folks can stick with XP.

If Microsoft doesn't get their act together, I foresee a lot of businesses going the route of Linux client/server systems with almost all apps delivered to end users via a web interface. The hardware and software demands for just doing basic desktop computing are far outstripping what's needed to perform the required tasks.
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#24 m1a1mg

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 2039 PM

I don't see Vista as an ME clone. ME did nothing to improve computing at all. Vista has some minute improvements along with the notable downgrades.

People have spoken of MS's demise for years. Thing is, most computer users are stupid and lazy. Corporate America will always need functional employees. Apple and Linux are just too different for most folks for major corporations to take the plunge.

Remember, despite all of their marketing and "upgrade" blunders, MS still controls 95% of the market. You can't argue with that.
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#25 Stevely

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 2114 PM

I don't see Vista as an ME clone. ME did nothing to improve computing at all. Vista has some minute improvements along with the notable downgrades.

People have spoken of MS's demise for years. Thing is, most computer users are stupid and lazy. Corporate America will always need functional employees. Apple and Linux are just too different for most folks for major corporations to take the plunge.

Remember, despite all of their marketing and "upgrade" blunders, MS still controls 95% of the market. You can't argue with that.


No one is arguing against that. If it was simply that Microsoft made the poorest products in the software industry, it could be left at that - there's always the crap version of every product, regardless of what it is. For every Mercedes, there's a Pinto. The problem is that through its business methods, Microsoft has leveraged itself into an actual monopoly, and uses that monopoly in ways that harmful to the industry, the consumers - everyone but MS' shareholders. Schneier's and Gutmann's articles demonstrate (as others do) that MS fully intends to abuse this market position further, crippling your computer even more.

All companies are mortal, and MS will as a matter of nature pass away some day, but as much as I despise that company, I hold no illusions that it will be anytime soon. That's a pity - the consumer and the industry will pay the price for years to come. Pity that government has been so supine on this - Mr. Gates' racket should have died in a courtroom years ago.
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#26 m1a1mg

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 2202 PM

No one is arguing against that.

You and I certainly aren't, but there are many who will. :)
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#27 Ivanhoe

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 0000 AM

People have spoken of MS's demise for years. Thing is, most computer users are stupid and lazy. Corporate America will always need functional employees. Apple and Linux are just too different for most folks for major corporations to take the plunge.


But if Vista turns out as bad as it seems to be, those employees will be decreasingly functional while their IT departments wrestle with hardware and DRM problems, license managing, etc.

There are examples out there of entire businesses that function without Windows or Mac, and they seem to be happy and getting everything done that needs doing. The corporate world (can't just say Corporate America these days; we're globalized, baby) has been taking the path of least resistance rather than try something that seems abnormal. They've been there before; it was called the IBM mainframe. Many resisted, but the business case for minis became overwhelming.
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#28 Garth

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 1303 PM

Soooooo, who is going to do the upgrade? Who is going to be a beta tester for Microsoft? I am uneasy about the DRM issues with Vista:


The question for me is: why do I need it?

Of the PCs I own and use on a regular basis, four are running 98R2 and one is running XP/SP2. I have one printserver box (486 DX2/66) that I turn on only a few times a year that's still running 95. They all suit my needs and the needs of my household just fine. I imagine that the next new machine I buy will have it ... but that probably won't be for at least another year yet.

--Garth
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#29 Ivanhoe

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 0826 AM

I stopped by CompUSA to pick up a DVD writer, and took a quick look at the Vista display. They had Vista loaded on several new laptops. From what I saw, it'll be another 2 years before graphics engines have caught up with the bloated GUI.
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#30 maxh

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Posted 01 March 2007 - 2335 PM

Just finished helping a friend set up his brand new HP, Vista Home is standard on it. A few quick thoughts on it.

The boot-up time from POST to log-in menu is about the same as an unoptimized XP boot but the log-in and the loading of background programs is somewhat faster and seems a lot more organized. There even more system processes running in the background and it's much more of a memory hog than XP. Expect a 5% to 10% performance drop in a top system, if your running 1024 or less expect even more, this really thing wants 2 gigs of RAM.

Looking at the interface Apple probably has grounds to sue M$. The transparency is a cute trick but nothing original. The dashboard is a straight rip-off of OSX.

A lot of older programs do not work right, watch out if you use legacy software, especially, games crypto or security. The new security measures also severely limit older games, crashes when trying to save. Vista's security system seems to really hate programs that require low level access to the Hard Disk. Any old program that tries to write a file will bring up a window complaining about it.

The OS is even naggier than XP, startup barrages you with system status messages and for the first few boots nags you about everything your programs do. Apparently the new firewall doesn't do a good job of inventorying what is safe and what isn't

If you use NVIDIA graphics the current drivers are barely useable and missing a bunch of features. HP's printer drivers are also MIA or not working right.

A lot of the features promised by M$ for Vista are missing. WinFS is MIA (NTFS's replacement), the file search engine while faster doesn't seem to be the new wonder system they were promising, just a rehashed version of the old one. I can hang it the same ways as the XP one and it still uses a load of system resources. But it looks like they wrote some lovely new DRM all for you. I suspect that's what the performance hit is from. Expect to see a lot more of Windows Genuine Advantage, the stupid thing scans constantly and God help you if you replace your NIC card, Video Card, DVD-ROM or upgrade your MB drivers.

DX10 is a joke, no launch titles, NVIDIA's DX10 wonder card has been castrated by the buggy driver support and ATI's part has been delayed again. More than likely it will take a while for developers to get comfortable with DX10 so expect to see a lot of games that look just as good in DX9.

So far not impressed, I'll stick with XP until the 2 year refresh comes out with the features I'm interested in.
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#31 m1a1mg

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 2055 PM

Funny, Newegg is offering freebies if you buy Vista. A repeat of Windows ME?
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#32 DesertFox

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 0610 AM

What does Vista fix that was wrong with XP?

Just upgraded to XP on my desktop about eight months ago and laptop is still running 98SE

Edited by DesertFox, 10 March 2007 - 0611 AM.

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#33 EvanDP

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 1350 PM

What does Vista fix that was wrong with XP?


The small but growing number of consumers that haven't upgraded to XP or have switched to OSX and Linux. :)
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#34 m1a1mg

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 2003 PM

I got a free copy of Vista for the Sony laptop I bought in January. Vista is OK. Not great by any means. The main thing I notice is all the cute shit that goes with it. I'm not much on cute. I like functional.
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#35 m1a1mg

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 0933 AM

I suppose Vista will become the new ME. The Longhorn Beta 1 is due in June.
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#36 Guest_aevans_*

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 1217 PM

My first impression is that Vista is heavy on security (which is good) and graphically it looks like it's set up for old people. Right up my alley. :) It was very easy to set up a network here at home


I hate it when it asks me to authorize opening up a Control Panel view when I'm already logged-in as the administrative user. You'd think the security model would be smart enough to check who the current user is and what he has access to, then just let him do stuff he's authorized to do, without asking him if he really wants to. Anybody have a clue how to shut this "feature" off?
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#37 Guest_aevans_*

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 1236 PM

Even though Win2k Server was replaced by 2003 Server and Win2k Workstation was replaced by XP, it seems Microsoft will provide basic security updates thru 2010. New versions of stuff like IE will no longer be available. This raises the question of how long folks can stick with XP.

If Microsoft doesn't get their act together, I foresee a lot of businesses going the route of Linux client/server systems with almost all apps delivered to end users via a web interface. The hardware and software demands for just doing basic desktop computing are far outstripping what's needed to perform the required tasks.


Predicted for over a decade now, has never come to pass, nor is it likely to. My college CS department was heavily Linux flavored, and I still think Linux is a joke as an end user OS, no matter what kind of GUI sugar you put on top of it. It's just too technically oriented, and the so-called Open Source community is too arrogant and insular to ever invest the time and resources that either Apple or MS has to create a GUI that covers all of the bases that the average user needs covered.

I will agree that a lot of databased applications will be delivered by web browser technology in the future -- there are just too many good business reasons not to. But that is not the same thing as saying that those browsers will be running in a Linux environment. Standard productivity apps require too much interactivity to ever be viable over the network, no matter what some guru may have whispered in your ear about application servers. And as long as productivity remains local, the OS is going to have to be keyed to the average hourly clerical employee, not to what some IT geek thinks is the perfect Linux setup for accessing the company intranet.
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#38 Guest_aevans_*

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 1239 PM

The small but growing number of consumers that haven't upgraded to XP or have switched to OSX and Linux. :)


There's a limit to how large that population will grow. That limit is the frustration factor of working with an OS that's designed by, for, and in the image of geeks (Linux) and working with a GUI that is unprofitable for most development organizations to target (OSX).
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#39 Guest_aevans_*

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 1303 PM

Thing is, most computer users are stupid and lazy.


No -- most computer users have just not bought-in to the "fiddle with my technology" culture that the geeks of the world tried (an still try, in the case of commercialized Linux) to foist off on them. They want computers to be communications, productivity, and entertainment appliances, not soul and time eating personal science projects.

The majority of such users are in fact highly intelligent, extremely motivated, active persons. They just want computers to work, without having to worry about why or how. Not because they are lazy or stupid, but because they have better things to do. MS figured this out, and though they are far from perfect, they do a better job addressing the needs of the vast majority of users (and developers who have better things to do than geekify with EMACS modes and command line interfaced compilers) than anybody else.
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#40 m1a1mg

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 1309 PM

No -- most computer users have just not bought-in to the "fiddle with my technology" culture that the geeks of the world tried (an still try, in the case of commercialized Linux) to foist off on them. They want computers to be communications, productivity, and entertainment appliances, not soul and time eating personal science projects.

The majority of such users are in fact highly intelligent, extremely motivated, active persons. They just want computers to work, without having to worry about why or how. Not because they are lazy or stupid, but because they have better things to do. MS figured this out, and though they are far from perfect, they do a better job addressing the needs of the vast majority of users (and developers who have better things to do than geekify with EMACS modes and command line interfaced compilers) than anybody else.

Bullshit. Are you talking about some other country?

Geek Squad here at Best Buy has a two week waiting list to assist customers in transferring files from their old computer to the new one they just bought from Best Buy. It only costs $100. Pure fucking laziness or stupidity.
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