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Meanwhile Back In Iraq...


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#61 urbanoid

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 0807 AM

It will be so ironic if Iran gets embroiled into massive Iraqi insurgency... :D

 

I hope so, they deserve it.


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#62 DKTanker

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 0841 AM

True in 2010. Not today. The Veep is a moron. That's a given. But in 2010, things were functioning. 

 

 

There are numerous reasons why Iraq has gone down this road. But there are a helluva lot more reasons created from 2003 to 2009, than from 2009 onward. 

 

The adults, the ones with real experience and Nobel Peace prizes, are in charge and they said they could fix anything and everything.  To include Iraq, Afghanistan, and keeping the sea from rising.


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#63 Paul G.

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 0854 AM

 

True in 2010. Not today. The Veep is a moron. That's a given. But in 2010, things were functioning. 

 

 

There are numerous reasons why Iraq has gone down this road. But there are a helluva lot more reasons created from 2003 to 2009, than from 2009 onward. 

 

The adults, the ones with real experience and Nobel Peace prizes, are in charge and they said they could fix anything and everything.  To include Iraq, Afghanistan, and keeping the sea from rising.

 

 

Jesus, Obama must have kicked your dog or somthing.  Or are we really that myopic?  This place really sounds like a mirror image Democraticunderground some times. 

 

OTOTH you managed to get Stuart to curse in a post (even after an edit) so you must get some kind of award for that. :ph34r:


Edited by Paul G., 13 June 2014 - 0855 AM.

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#64 DKTanker

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 0854 AM

 And yes, I believe Iraq and Afghanistan ought to be stabilised. It was your good self who has stated time and again they want to withdraw from the entire middle east and put a ring fence around it. Also, don't you think it was your (and my) desire to keep the US out of Syria that has contributed to the shitstorm this situation has now turned into? The irony, we actually agreed on something for once and we both turned out to be wrong.

 

 

The bolded bit, I don't know who "they" are, but I generally agree with the proposition, though I don't recall having said as much in so many words.

 

Regarding Syria, I believe US and western involvement in Syria, on the side of the insurgency, helped create the environment from which ISIS has arisen.


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#65 Marek Tucan

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 0856 AM

 

has anyone checked to see if a Movie/clip has been put on You Tube that has provoked this . Also are all Mossad people accounted for


Check the melons!

 

Wanted to add something concerning the young lady this morning on the bus...  :ph34r:

 

Anyway, it is a serious development and it looks like sealing the "three state solution". At least de facto, not de iure - I for one do not think the new Iraqi army would be able to do more than stop / contain the advance, even with outside help, unless Iran does a full-scale intervetnion (which it won't)


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#66 DKTanker

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 0859 AM

 

 

Jesus, Obama must have kicked your dog or somthing.  Or are we really that myopic?  This place really sounds like a mirror image Democraticunderground some times. 

 

OTOTH you managed to get Stuart to curse in a post so you must get some kind of award for that. :ph34r:

 

I didn't start it, I was perfectly content to talk about what was actually happening now, but two others decided they had to inject politics, one quite overtly, into the discussion.  So flay at your strawman with them.

 

I don't know about Democrat Underground, not a place I hang out.


Edited by DKTanker, 13 June 2014 - 0901 AM.

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#67 Paul G.

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 0900 AM

Just had a thought.  I wonder how the ME would have turned out now if Bush had never invaded?

 

1. Would Iraq be in the same shitstorm Syria is now?  I mean look at Egypt, Lybia, Tunisa, would Iraq be in the same boat?

 

2. Would the Arab spring even have occured in the first place without the US invasion?  I mean it had obviously been simmering, but perhaps it was one of the factors to contributed.


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#68 m1a1mg

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 0930 AM

Take the entire thread into consideration Dave. Don't let your ODS myopia cloud your judgement. It wasn't until someone noted that Obama wasn't the singular cause of what is currently happening in Iraq that you changed directions.

It is imperative that the one who started the mess own it. Those who follow are merely enablers.

This being Tanknet though, not many are willing to note that ODS is as pervasive now as BDS was during the previous administration.
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#69 Sardaukar

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 0934 AM

Just had a thought.  I wonder how the ME would have turned out now if Bush had never invaded?

 

1. Would Iraq be in the same shitstorm Syria is now?  I mean look at Egypt, Lybia, Tunisa, would Iraq be in the same boat?

 

2. Would the Arab spring even have occured in the first place without the US invasion?  I mean it had obviously been simmering, but perhaps it was one of the factors to contributed.

 

1. Short answer, yes.

2. Maybe, but invasion sure made things easier....


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#70 Brian Kennedy

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 0952 AM

Call me an idiot, because I hear (2) a lot, but how did our invasion of Iraq have all that much to do with the Arab Spring? The plan to set up Iraq as some shining example of democracy for the region to emulate didn't work out all that great, and most of the guys who overthrew their governments weren't exactly pro-U.S..


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#71 Marek Tucan

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 0956 AM

OTOH it showed that even the most ruthless (probably) dictator in the area can fall... And hide... And hang...

 

I would not say it was a direct connection, but it must have leave an impression.


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#72 Colin

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 0956 AM

Just had a thought.  I wonder how the ME would have turned out now if Bush had never invaded?

 

1. Would Iraq be in the same shitstorm Syria is now?  I mean look at Egypt, Lybia, Tunisa, would Iraq be in the same boat?

 

2. Would the Arab spring even have occured in the first place without the US invasion?  I mean it had obviously been simmering, but perhaps it was one of the factors to contributed.

I have thought about it and it scares the shit out of me, we would have ran working hard on Nukes, Saddam rapidly rebuilding his military and to counter Iran and West, focusing on WMD's first. Pakistan would help Iraq with the Nuke program. At some point Iran and Iraq would likely have a go at each other with at least tactical nukes and other WMD being used again.


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#73 WRW

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 1254 PM

If Intel people did not anticipate something happening there is a problem - if the bad can organise this in secret we are in for bad times


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#74 T19

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 1304 PM

Gee, who misses the old days of Saddam

We had many arguments on this site back in the day about what to do with the Iraqi army. The US at the time unemployed them, fired those Col and above. Now we know where those guys went. We should have offered them jobs and kept them going

#75 m1a1mg

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 1304 PM

If Iraq's flaunting of the sanctions was a reason for an invasion, the invasion of NK should have happened years ago. 


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#76 Paul G.

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 1319 PM

 

 

 

Jesus, Obama must have kicked your dog or somthing.  Or are we really that myopic?  This place really sounds like a mirror image Democraticunderground some times. 

 

OTOTH you managed to get Stuart to curse in a post so you must get some kind of award for that. :ph34r:

 

I didn't start it, I was perfectly content to talk about what was actually happening now, but two others decided they had to inject politics, one quite overtly, into the discussion.  So flay at your strawman with them.

 

I don't know about Democrat Underground, not a place I hang out.

 

 

I used to do so quite a bit,  carefully arguing (they ban those contrary to the progressive/liberal stance) against the tide.  My niche was 9-11 conspiracies.  But the Anti-Obama crowd sounds quite a bit like the Anti-Bush crowd.


Edited by Paul G., 13 June 2014 - 1324 PM.

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#77 Dawes

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 1401 PM

Wonder if F-16IQ deliveries to Iraq will be put on hold?


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#78 Sardaukar

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 1411 PM

Wonder if F-16IQ deliveries to Iraq will be put on hold?

 

ISIS needs to train pilots first for them to be useful... :D


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#79 Gregory

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 1605 PM

Gee, who misses the old days of Saddam

We had many arguments on this site back in the day about what to do with the Iraqi army. The US at the time unemployed them, fired those Col and above. Now we know where those guys went. We should have offered them jobs and kept them going

 

Ehh...Maliki would've just fired them anyway.  Last 3 years they've been purging the army of unreliable commanders - i.e. Sunnis.  Basically Maliki wanted to run Iraq as Saddam-lite but with Shiites on top instead of Sunnis.  It worked out pretty much the same way - Sunni soldiers have zero committment to fighting for Shiite state where they are treated as second rank citizens. 

 

It's kind of a chicken and egg problem - you have population which doesn't support your administration, so you remove members of that group from positions of responsibility, which in turn reduces their support etc. etc.  The best thing that could happen to Iraq is for Kurdistan to declare independence while the other two groups are fighting. 


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#80 Sardaukar

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 1614 PM

http://www.telegraph...t-happened.html

 

"Group claims mass killings of Iraqi troops, as militants battle security forces 50 miles from Baghdad "

 

"Quite wonkish but very revealing analysis of how Iranian proxies such as Kataib Hezbollah, Asaib Ahl al-Haqq and Liwa Abu Fadl al-Abbas have relocated from Syria to fight ISIS in Iraq."

 

"ISIS have tweeted the decapitated head of what appears to be an Iraqi policeman with the sentence 'This is our football, it's made of skin #World Cup', followed by a boast of having slaughtered 1,700 soldiers."

 

These guys definitely have their own style...reminds me of Mongols. 


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