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Mint Vs Ubuntu Vs Fedora Vs Debian Vs Opensuse Vs Others


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#81 CT96

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 1954 PM

if you think it was LEET in 2000, you should have seen it in about 1995. I was playing with an early Slackware release. Ye gods it was murder getting help, even from Linux users I knew first hand. I had a few friends help me get setup and going enough to be functional... and the rest as they say is history.

 

I still say you don't know how to use Linux unless you use the command line - but you don't NEED to use it for things anymore. I would feel fine installing Linux on my mother's computer (I wouldn't ask her to install it herself) and letting her just use it. 


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#82 TTK Ciar

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 0419 AM

There are as many use-cases as there are computer users. Acting snarky because your use-case is different from mine seems .. misguided. It's better to help folks find something that works for them.

My own Linux story starts with a stutter. In 1992 I was visiting a friend who was home for Christmas, and he couldn't stop talking about this Linux thing. It required an i386 (which I did not have -- was still on an i286-12) and it wouldn't run any of my old DOS software, but that didn't stop him from pressing a floppy disk into my hands labeled "Linux 0.98-pl4".

The next year I was the happy owner of an i486DX-50 and gave Linux a try, but didn't really see the point. OS/2 2.1 made me happy. I could write native 32-bit applications for it in C or Modula-2 or Pascal, and it would run my old DOS programs, and that was enough. Linux had a nice C compiler but only a crappy, minimal Pascal compiler and no Modula-2 compiler at all as far as I could tell. The Linux boot floppy went into a drawer and got lost.

In 1996 I was writing multiprocess and networking software, and OS/2 wasn't cutting it, so Linux started to look appealing, finally. I picked up a book, "Linux Unleashed", which happened to have a Slackware 3.0 installation CD in the back cover. Slackware made sense to me (I'd learned AT&T System-V UNIX ten years previously) and provided a comprehensive development environment. At first my desktop dual-booted OS/2 and Slackware, but as I figured out how to make Linux do more and more the need for OS/2 diminished. By the end of 1998 I was no longer dual-booting, just used Linux for everything.

Over the years I've tried other distributions and some of the BSDs, but always came back to Slackware. I love its large base install, conservative development/release methodology and rock-solid stability. It's my OS at home and at work. It's not for everyone (I'm a strong proponent of Mint Linux for the desktop, especially for people switching away from Windows) but it's totally the right thing for me.

It took me a long time to find the online Slackware community. Always preferred to learn through reading and practice, not asking random strangers questions. I'm making up for it now, though, participating in the LinuxQuestions Slackware web forum, and I'm co-moderator of the ##slackware-help IRC channel on freenode. There can be some smug elitism among Slackware users, but we do a pretty good job of setting that aside and helping people figure stuff out.

The face of computing has changed a lot, and there's less of a niche for Slackware than there once was. It is, and remains, a distribution for people to build upon, and make things in, but that's not what most people need. People need something that gives them a convenient interface to all the applications they need to do the tasks of everyday life. Slackware can do that, but it's not the best choice for it. There are better distributions for doing that, like Mint and Fedora. It's been years since I've recommended Slackware to anyone except already-experienced technical Linux users who are trying to get away from systemd (which is on three-quarters of all distributions today, but not Slackware).

Eesh, didn't mean to ramble quite so much. Stopping there.
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#83 Murph

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 0905 AM

No kidding.  While I am more comfortable with the GUI, I am slowly learning to do things on the command line.  lshw is a wonderful command to find out what is on your computer, I did that and transferred the output to a text file so I have all the data right at hand.  Also the command line gives a lot more control.  I thought about getting my dad a Mint linux laptop so that he could use it around the house.  I think that Mint would work fine for him.  

if you think it was LEET in 2000, you should have seen it in about 1995. I was playing with an early Slackware release. Ye gods it was murder getting help, even from Linux users I knew first hand. I had a few friends help me get setup and going enough to be functional... and the rest as they say is history.

 

I still say you don't know how to use Linux unless you use the command line - but you don't NEED to use it for things anymore. I would feel fine installing Linux on my mother's computer (I wouldn't ask her to install it herself) and letting her just use it. 


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#84 Murph

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 0907 AM

You know the funny part is that in the early days the Slackware folks were less obnoxious than the Debian and Red Hat people who thought their feces did not emit a foul odor.  The Slackware guys *knew* they were the elite of the elite, and did not need to boast about it.

 

 

There are as many use-cases as there are computer users. Acting snarky because your use-case is different from mine seems .. misguided. It's better to help folks find something that works for them.

My own Linux story starts with a stutter. In 1992 I was visiting a friend who was home for Christmas, and he couldn't stop talking about this Linux thing. It required an i386 (which I did not have -- was still on an i286-12) and it wouldn't run any of my old DOS software, but that didn't stop him from pressing a floppy disk into my hands labeled "Linux 0.98-pl4".

The next year I was the happy owner of an i486DX-50 and gave Linux a try, but didn't really see the point. OS/2 2.1 made me happy. I could write native 32-bit applications for it in C or Modula-2 or Pascal, and it would run my old DOS programs, and that was enough. Linux had a nice C compiler but only a crappy, minimal Pascal compiler and no Modula-2 compiler at all as far as I could tell. The Linux boot floppy went into a drawer and got lost.

In 1996 I was writing multiprocess and networking software, and OS/2 wasn't cutting it, so Linux started to look appealing, finally. I picked up a book, "Linux Unleashed", which happened to have a Slackware 3.0 installation CD in the back cover. Slackware made sense to me (I'd learned AT&T System-V UNIX ten years previously) and provided a comprehensive development environment. At first my desktop dual-booted OS/2 and Slackware, but as I figured out how to make Linux do more and more the need for OS/2 diminished. By the end of 1998 I was no longer dual-booting, just used Linux for everything.

Over the years I've tried other distributions and some of the BSDs, but always came back to Slackware. I love its large base install, conservative development/release methodology and rock-solid stability. It's my OS at home and at work. It's not for everyone (I'm a strong proponent of Mint Linux for the desktop, especially for people switching away from Windows) but it's totally the right thing for me.

It took me a long time to find the online Slackware community. Always preferred to learn through reading and practice, not asking random strangers questions. I'm making up for it now, though, participating in the LinuxQuestions Slackware web forum, and I'm co-moderator of the ##slackware-help IRC channel on freenode. There can be some smug elitism among Slackware users, but we do a pretty good job of setting that aside and helping people figure stuff out.

The face of computing has changed a lot, and there's less of a niche for Slackware than there once was. It is, and remains, a distribution for people to build upon, and make things in, but that's not what most people need. People need something that gives them a convenient interface to all the applications they need to do the tasks of everyday life. Slackware can do that, but it's not the best choice for it. There are better distributions for doing that, like Mint and Fedora. It's been years since I've recommended Slackware to anyone except already-experienced technical Linux users who are trying to get away from systemd (which is on three-quarters of all distributions today, but not Slackware).

Eesh, didn't mean to ramble quite so much. Stopping there.


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#85 Murph

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 2223 PM

I know that Fedora has no long term release like Ubuntu/Mint, but are they really that different?  Other than the package managers?


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#86 CT96

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 2245 PM

Really it's that Fedora is trying hard to be "bleeding edge", so hard that you are on a permanent treadmill of upgrades and reinstalls. It's great if you always want to be on the forward recon... 

 

In the Redhat family if you want a long-term stable release you need to go with CentOS or RHEL. 

 

These days for some reason I seem to be working with core servers that are CentOS, and ancillary systems that are Ubuntu. Biggest headache is remembering which I am on to either to an apt or a yum. 


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#87 Murph

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 0010 AM

I thought Red Hat used .rpm?  What is yum?  It is so easy to sudo apt-get update and things just work.  Is yum like that for Red Hat distros?  Just curious because Mint 18.3 is working like a dream on this laptop.  It is so good, I really wish I could get rid of Windows completely, but I can't yet.

Really it's that Fedora is trying hard to be "bleeding edge", so hard that you are on a permanent treadmill of upgrades and reinstalls. It's great if you always want to be on the forward recon... 

 

In the Redhat family if you want a long-term stable release you need to go with CentOS or RHEL. 

 

These days for some reason I seem to be working with core servers that are CentOS, and ancillary systems that are Ubuntu. Biggest headache is remembering which I am on to either to an apt or a yum. 


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#88 TTK Ciar

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 0015 AM

"rpm" is the package type, but the package manager utility (or one of them, anyway, the main one people use) is "yum".
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#89 Murph

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 0946 AM

I remember the dependency hell of early distros, which led to me being banned from a linux forum for stating that linux needed to take a page from Microsoft and Apple and include all dependencies in each package. That was not a popular statement, because real men roll their own and make sure that they track down every last dependency.


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#90 CT96

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 1229 PM

I remember the dependency hell of early distros, which led to me being banned from a linux forum for stating that linux needed to take a page from Microsoft and Apple and include all dependencies in each package. That was not a popular statement, because real men roll their own and make sure that they track down every last dependency.

 

There's a distro for that. It's called Gentoo. You compile everything from source. Pros: you have complete control of everything. Cons: you HAVE to have complete control of everything. 


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#91 Murph

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 1250 PM

That sounds painful at best.  Agonizing and something I would not attempt with my minimal level of linux knowledge.

 

 

I remember the dependency hell of early distros, which led to me being banned from a linux forum for stating that linux needed to take a page from Microsoft and Apple and include all dependencies in each package. That was not a popular statement, because real men roll their own and make sure that they track down every last dependency.

 

There's a distro for that. It's called Gentoo. You compile everything from source. Pros: you have complete control of everything. Cons: you HAVE to have complete control of everything. 

 


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#92 Murph

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 0553 AM

The more I use it, the more I love the simple power and control that I get with my Mint Linux laptop.  I especially love how painless it makes updates.  


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#93 Murph

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 1052 AM

It looks like Manjaro linux can run Microsoft office online: https://www.dedoimed...ice-online.html   Microsoft office will make things more efficient for those who need a Microsoft office sweet.


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#94 CT96

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 1256 PM

What I _really_ need is a linux that can run TuboTax. (insert grumbling about tax season).


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#95 Murph

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 0533 AM

Me too.  Also apparently 18.04 has some issues in the beta: https://www.dedoimed...eaver-beta.html

What I _really_ need is a linux that can run TuboTax. (insert grumbling about tax season).


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#96 Murph

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 0840 AM

I love Mint.  I really do.  However, there is one issue that drives me absolutely nuts.  Even with "turn off trackpad when typing" is active, it does not, and if I brush it, the cursor jumps all over the place.  I have to manually turn it off.  Is it too much to ask to just turn off the darn trackpad properly?  But I have done some Linux evangelism:  I was at an (overpriced) Coffeeshop yesterday, and a hipster came up behind me and saw me working on my computer. He (of course) had a decal covered laptop of uncertain heritage, and he could not understand what I was doing (I was using terminal at the time). I was using Alpine to read, and write some emails. We started talking, and he had never heard of Linux. After showing him the things on my computer, he opined that he might go home and look up Mint and try it out. Imagine that, me an old dude, actually able to teach a millenial something that he did not know. I even showed him that he could use Chrome, and Twitter so he could star connected. 

 
 
He then went over and started speaking with his very tattooed, body pierced mac using girlfriend, and she wanted to know if Mint could run iTunes. I told her no, but I did show her my iTunes library on Rhythmbox as I finished my extremely overpriced Latte (50-75 cents worth of coffee, and 30-50 cents worth of milk for $4.20 incl. tax). Please excuse my snark, I am very ill right now with one of the worst sinus infections I have had in a decade, and not a pleasant person to be around right now.

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#97 Murph

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 1934 PM

Why does Arch Linux and Arch users have such a bad reputation for snobbery, and being jerks?  Anyone know?


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#98 TTK Ciar

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 2333 PM

There is a social divide between the "techie distros" and the "everyday use distros".

Users of the former can act condescending towards users of the latter, and the "everyday use" folks rightfully call them on it.

Arch is definitely one of the "techie distros".

Edited by TTK Ciar, 19 May 2018 - 2334 PM.

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#99 Murph

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 1029 AM

Thanks.  They seem like the old Debian zealots back in the late 1990's when I first tried Linux.  

There is a social divide between the "techie distros" and the "everyday use distros".

Users of the former can act condescending towards users of the latter, and the "everyday use" folks rightfully call them on it.

Arch is definitely one of the "techie distros".


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#100 Murph

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 2036 PM

I love Mint, and I love my laptop.  I tried Manjaro on Lupe's old laptop and I could not get the wifi to work, and I just could not adjust to it, so I scraped it off and went back to Mint XFCE on that laptop.  


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