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Storm In A Teacup, Or Rn Vs. Iran


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#21 Simon Tan

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 0136 AM

Exit EU them get into bunfights. It's bloody embarassing that HM has such hopeless people in government.
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#22 Anixtu

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 0152 AM

LCS? We would be better off arming the isle of Man ferry...


That is a proven solution. New Zealand has already demonstrated the utility of an armed IoM ferry with HMNZS Canterbury, design based on MV Ben-my-Chree.

Edited by Anixtu, 24 July 2019 - 0152 AM.

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#23 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 0222 AM

Thanks for that. Well judging by the amount of incidents MV Ben-my-Chree seems to have shrugged off, maybe arming it is the right idea. :D Gavin Williamson was pushing for small vessels to forward deploy SOF around the world, so the Canterbury is actually not a bad model.

 

My Grandfather came back from Dunkirk on the Mersey ferry. There is a long history of ferries turning in useful war service with the RN.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 24 July 2019 - 0224 AM.

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#24 Anixtu

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 0247 AM

Canterbury is not a good landing platform. No dock. We already have Bay class LSDs, tried and tested as landing ships and motherships.
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#25 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 0308 AM

There was a good article about what we were looking at here.

http://www.hisutton....rike_Ships.html

 

Its based on the MV Craigside, or the Ocean Trader as its now known, which has been acquired for the US SOF community.

CRAGSIDE_674968.570x1140.jpg


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 24 July 2019 - 0335 AM.

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#26 Anixtu

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 1158 AM

There was a good article about what we were looking at here.
http://www.hisutton....rike_Ships.html
 
Its based on the MV Craigside, or the Ocean Trader as its now known, which has been acquired for the US SOF community.
CRAGSIDE_674968.570x1140.jpg


Doesn't look like a good design to me. I've operated vessels as SF FOBs, landing ships and motherships with and without docks. Dock has more flexibility and can operate in higher sea state than davit or crane launching. Davit launching is limited to craft designed for the specific davit. Single crane is single point of failure if using that to launch irregular size boats (arguably also true of dock door).
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#27 Josh

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 1536 PM

The US conversion has eight davit positions, but of course these will still be sea state dependent.


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#28 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 0143 AM

You can JUST about see them on here, although its not a fantastic angle.

 

https://www.thedrive...ears-on-twitter

 

Its not quite clear all of what they have done to her.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 25 July 2019 - 0144 AM.

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#29 Panzermann

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 0740 AM

You can JUST about see them on here, although its not a fantastic angle.

 

https://www.thedrive...ears-on-twitter

 

Its not quite clear all of what they have done to her.

 

Odd that the life boat  portside aft is missing. It looks rather uhm weathered. And is that big black spot an RPG hit or a generator exhaust?

 

 

What one can see is the added boxes in front of the bridge and behind it next to the big yellow exhaust and the new helo pad. Portside there seem to have been no new openings been cut. I wonder if it has a connector for replenishment of water and fuel at sea?

 

 

this photo is from construction at the shipyard in 2015:

 

1920px-MV_Cragside_in_Mobile%2C_AL_on_Oc

 

Looks like they welded up the openings on the starboard side and added new openings for launching boats.

 

 

 

another set of   photos can be found here: https://www.thedrive...alth-speedboats


Edited by Panzermann, 25 July 2019 - 0745 AM.

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#30 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 0757 AM

I think they left it weathered so it doesnt stand out. Q ship kind of thing, you know?

 

Would be fun to hang a British flag on it and sail it through the Straits of Hormuz though. :P


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#31 Anixtu

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 0813 AM

Odd that the life boat  portside aft is missing. It looks rather uhm weathered. And is that big black spot an RPG hit or a generator exhaust?


She was in a shipyard for maintenance and/or certification. Landing a lifeboat for maintenance or testing of the boat or davit is routine in such circumstances.
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#32 Josh

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 1018 AM

It is equipped to take underway replenishment. The requirement was that it sustain itself with 200 personnel for 45 days and be able to replenish and continue at sea for another 45 days. The idea seems to be that it can stay at sea over the horizon supporting special ops for extended period of time independently. Besides having a lot of 13m boat launches, it apparently can handle any helo SOF uses including CH-53E. No armament though outside a half dozen removable 50 cals. While it looks a little ugly, to some extent this may be desirable and to some extent unavoidable, given the amount of time it spends away from port. There are few photographs of it in port or in sea lanes and it has only reported itself on AIS several times - it's a modern day ghost ship.


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#33 Anixtu

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 1307 PM

The US conversion has eight davit positions, but of course these will still be sea state dependent.


Looks like she only has 4, all on the starboard side, but that has a possible operational advantage over 2 on each side. She won't need to turn to create a lee on the opposite side to launch the second pair, allowing for simultaneous or near-simultaneous launches.
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#34 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 1337 PM

I guess its not an entirely new idea, the US hired some maritime barges for operations in the Persian Gulf in 1988, as a FOB for operating the Little Birds in operations against the Iranians. Worked very well, but it nearly came a cropper to a silkworm attack. There are some confused reports that claim it either missed, or was shot down by a Stinger.

 

 

I guess they would probably be carrying stinger teams if they needed them. A phalanx is going to stand out a bit.


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#35 Josh

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 1434 PM

The Iranians have their own version parked in the Red Sea currently. The USN also has the two somewhat more conventional MSB subtype of their mobile transfer docks, and before that Ponce.


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#36 Anixtu

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 1744 PM

I guess they would probably be carrying stinger teams if they needed them. A phalanx is going to stand out a bit.


Stinger or any other MANPAD is ineffective against modern or modern-ish AShM.
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#37 Jeff

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 1920 PM

 

LCS? We would be better off arming the isle of Man ferry...

 

Or the Mary Rose.

 

 

Heck, refit the Victory.


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#38 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 26 July 2019 - 0424 AM

Well one thing is for sure, they would have a hell of a job rappelling from a Helicopter onto it. :D

 

 

 

I guess they would probably be carrying stinger teams if they needed them. A phalanx is going to stand out a bit.


Stinger or any other MANPAD is ineffective against modern or modern-ish AShM.

 

 

Im sure you are right, but Iran still seems to use Silkworm (or at least Iranian built versions of it). Well, its better than nothing....

 

 

There is an interesting article here on the Iranian equivalent to the above ship.

http://www.hisutton.com/Saviz.html


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#39 Anixtu

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Posted 26 July 2019 - 0701 AM

Im sure you are right, but Iran still seems to use Silkworm (or at least Iranian built versions of it). Well, its better than nothing....


Iran may still have Silkworm in inventory, but they have a lot of newer AShMs.

It's worse than nothing if it is ineffective, wastes resources and offers a false sense of security.
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#40 seahawk

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 0901 AM

Yet, it wastes resources on both sides. On the Iranian from having it, on the other side from being ready to neutralize it,.


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