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Mig-29 In Eastern Europe

MiG-29 USSR Cold War

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#1 alejandro_

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 0539 AM

It is pretty well known that MiG lost a big market in eastern Europe, first when USSR applied the "Sinatra doctrine" and then when the Soviet Union dissolved.

 

I have been trying to get some idea of the number of Fulcrum to be acquired by Yugoslavia and Warsaw Pact nations if the Communist governments would have stayed in the power. This is so far what I have:

 

- Yugoslavia: 16 MiG-29, first country in Eastern Europe to receive them. 28 more were planned.

- Romania: 16 MiG-29. There were rumours about a total of 30 to be acquired.

- East Germany: 24 MiG-29, all transferred to Luftwaffe after reunification. No details if more were expected.

- Czechoslovakia: 20 MiG-29. Fleet divided between Czech Republic and Slovakia.

- Poland: 12 acquired from USSR, 10 from Czech Republic, and 22 from Germany.

- Hungary: 28 MiG-29 received in 1993 to pay for Russian debt. All retired and offered for sale.

- Bulgaria: 22 MiG-29 received in 1989-90.

 

Maybe our Eastern European colleagues could provide more details. Were there contracts for more MiG-29 being negotiated in 1990-91?


Edited by alejandro_, 03 March 2016 - 0629 AM.

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#2 Oddball31

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 0544 AM

Not for us. Hungary couldn't pay for MiG-29s if she wanted them in the 80s (didn't). She could afford a single squadron of Floggers before (they had arrived in 1978 or 79).


Edited by Oddball31, 03 March 2016 - 1048 AM.

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#3 urbanoid

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 0609 AM

Slovaks received more in the end, after all they upgraded 12 aircraft.

 

With a number of debts remaining from Warsaw Pact times, Russia sought to settle these issues with its former ‘imposed allies’. Several former Warsaw Pact countries therefore received transfers of armament that had essentially become obsolete in the ‘new’ Russia. Slovakia received two batches of Soviet-standard, full v-capable MiG-29s. Arriving from Russia in late 1994 were five single-seat 9.12s and a two-seat 9.51. The second batch followed a year later with an additional seven single-seaters and another two-seater. This brought the Slovak total to 24 MiG-29s, allowing the subsequent establishment of 2. stihacia letka (2nd Fighter Squadron) at Sliac. the new unit being the recipient of the former Russian aircraft. Today, the Russian debt payments in the form of armament back in the 1990s are an issue that Slovak officials would rather not discuss. - See more at: http://www.kamov.net...h.lONPDpUz.dpuf

 

In Poland licence production/upgrade of MiG-29/M-2000 was proposed in the mid-90s - it would be Russian airframe and engines plus Western avionics/armament. The number I came across is 72 total. We know how it turned out, though 16 of our 29s had some limited upgrades.


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#4 Yama

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 1912 PM

Finland was about to order MiG-29 to replace MiG-21, when USSR collapsed. After that it was decided to buy all fighters from West, both because of political reasons, and to save money by operating just 1 type. Probably around 20 to 24 examples would have been bought. There was some speculation about Finns buying out ex-GDR MiG-29's, the number was just right, but Germans probably would not have sold them anyway.

In 1992, Yeltsin administration offered Finland MiG-29 and MiG-31 (!) but the offer was rejected.

Edited by Yama, 03 March 2016 - 1913 PM.

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#5 Panzermann

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 0600 AM

Mig-31? What were the Finns supposed to do with those? :blink:
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#6 urbanoid

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 0621 AM

Intercept the hell out of everyone? :P


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#7 RETAC21

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 0644 AM

Bulgaria got MiG-25s. If they went mach 3 they ran out of country.
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#8 alejandro_

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 0646 AM

Bulgaria got MiG-25s. If they went mach 3 they ran out of country. 

 

Yes, those were part of Warsaw Pact reconnaissance assets. As soon as it was dissolved, they were exchanged for MiG-23MLD.

 

the new unit being the recipient of the former Russian aircraft. Today, the Russian debt payments in the form of armament back in the 1990s are an issue that Slovak officials would rather not discuss. - See more at

 

Very interesting thanks. Hungary got their in a similar way. This country was criticized several times for not spending enough in deference. 


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#9 Yama

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 1639 PM

Mig-31? What were the Finns supposed to do with those? :blink:

 

I don't know. What little I've read of the episode, it comes across quite literally as some drunken Yeltsin idea.

 

But they sure would have looked badass! B)

 

Old Soviet debt writeoff with military equipmen was a topic here too, first MiG-29's were considered, and R-73 AAMs for Hawks. In the end we settled for Buk system, though that one required some arm-twisting.


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#10 Fritz

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 1721 PM

Bulgaria got MiG-25s. If they went mach 3 they ran out of country.

 

4 delivered in 1982, 1 lost in 1984, returned in 1991 (too big and too expensive for the country) to now Russia, got 5 MiG-23s in return.

 

They did regular recon flights over Turkey AFAIK.


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#11 Pavel Novak

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 1456 PM

...

I have been trying to get some idea of the number of Fulcrum to be acquired by Yugoslavia and Warsaw Pact nations if the Communist governments would have stayed in the power. This is so far what I have:

 

...

- Czechoslovakia: 20 MiG-29. Fleet divided between Czech Republic and Slovakia.

...

 

 

Czechoslovak leadership decided on buying that 20 MiG-29 (18 single-seaters, 2 two-seaters) in 1985. According to small force reduction/reorganization in 1988 it was planned to get another 48 MiG-29 (42 single-seaters and 6 two-seaters). New fighters were expected to do qualitative compensation for dissolution of one fighter air regiment. However 1988 plan was dead by 1989.


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#12 alejandro_

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 0704 AM

In Serbia a book on the MiG-29 in former Yugoslavia has been published. The published information provides many interesting details on it's acquisition.

 
- The reason to acquire the Fulcrum was that the MiG-21 fleet was running out of hours and the Yugoslavian Novi Avion would bot be ready for operations until 1995.
 
- A Yugoslav delegation visited the USSR in December 1985. They were shown different types of weapons, all known except one. I This was the MiG-29 . It had a completely new configuration with very unusual air intakes and wing shape. The Yugoslav delegation was also able to see the R-77, which was an exception at the time.
 
- The new radar was not inferior to those used by Mirage 2000/F-16, and it had an optical sighting system, which could be combined with a helmet sighting system pilot, allowing missiles to be fired at an angle.
 
- In mid 1986 the government of Yugoslavia decided to acquire 14 single seat aircraft and 2 double. The price of one aircraft without weapons was 15.9 million $. At that time the F-16 and Mirage 2000 exceeded 30 million $.
 
- One of the officers involved in the selection states that back then the MiG-29 was superior to the other available options (F-20, Mirage 2000, F-16). It was cheaper and had better performance. At that time it was equipped with an electro-opctical sighting system, which the West only fielded after 10 years. Also, parts of the MiG-21 could be used in the MiG-29 -this probably refers to armament-.
 
https://vpk.name/new...ir_serbiya.html

Edited by alejandro_, 04 May 2017 - 0705 AM.

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#13 bojan

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 1808 PM

Marjan Jelen is a name of the test pilot who flew both 29 and 2000.

 

One problem with 29 however was that it could not use HAS equipped with blast doors, such as those at Zeljava airbase, since those were made for single tail aircrafts.


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#14 alejandro_

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 0403 AM

Thanks Bojan, as I read the opinion was that the Mirage 2000 had better interface but lower performance than the MiG-29. If the price is taken into account the choice is pretty clear.


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