One similarity I have with firefly1 is that I am not a CCP supporter.
But I can't help but feel defensive when I encounter people with a lot of hate for China. C'mon admit it, don't make excuses like "I only hate the CCP" etc... You hate China. We know. They know. It's out in the open. We saw how Westerners everywhere tried to disrupt the 2008 Olympics and Steven Spielberg pulled out of an agreement to work for the Beijing Olympics. And the Chinese collectively probably deserve or "earned" much of the hate. But much of this negative image is also undeserved.
China, is a PR disaster - so much for Communists being good at propaganda... They have no clue how to groom their own image. Their leaders do not speak English, and so cannot become personable to a western public.
To go into a list of US bad deeds vs China bad deeds would be pedantic but you will find that the US keep getting away with murder, compared to China. Over and over again. While China stupidly has a loud bark but a very weak bite and has bitten far less times than... well, many others. Yet it is deemed the biggest threat globally, "current most evil nation" status etc despite not having occupied or shot at any foreign nation for decades.
Sigh... the SCS or even Diaoyu, are a bunch of uninhabited isles. Please do not jump to the conclusion that China is next ready to invade the Philippines proper. No. The last thing they need is to go into a nation over-flowing with heavily-armed civilians, bandits and insurgents. (no offense, Tomas) They've got enough shit to deal with WRT Xinjiang and Tibet rebellion, whose insurgents either so far have no access to firearms - impossible - or simply hoarding it for the "big one".
Not saying China claiming the SCS is acceptable, I've always staunchly maintained it isn't. But they're not bombing civilians, or mowing down homes to get to these natural resources. Treat it for what it really is: a greedy grab for resources in uninhabited territories.
Apart from SCS, China's other major PR disaster is the continued subjugation of the quaint and vastly-popular people of Tibet. Western people see the Tibet people and culture, and feel immediate sympathy for the Tibetans. Like wanting to protect a child. Add to that the masterful PR from Dalai Lamma.
The Chinese surely must understand that a people as fanatically religious as the Tibetans can never be completely subjugated. The only way is to corrupt them with wealth and prosperity. But this takes a long time and meanwhile, they should really work with the Dalai Lamma rather than to vilify him. When he dies, the next exiled Tibetan leader would not be as prepared to come to a peaceful compromise with China. Already, the Tibetans seemed prepared to accept some kind of Chinese governance, but why introduce rampant Han Chinese settlement of their homeland?
The same goes for Xinjiang, which is an even bigger time bomb that cannot be defused.
But even there in Tibet, their oppression nowhere near as brutal, murderous and utterly destructive as the US' occupation of Iraq. The PLA in Tibet are no saints since make no mistake this is a forced military subjugation of an occupied people. But the PLA is still nowhere near as murderous as many other occupational armies even after large scale interracial riots/massacres against the Han Chinese etc. But the CCP can't get away with it like the popular US can. OK, I just broke my own promise not to go into a US vs China item by item discussion.
Yes, Freedom. China curtailed especially western press freedom in places like Tibet and Xinjiang. Why? Do you actually expect Western press to give a fair reporting? Even when clearly a massacre of Han Chinese people has occurred, the western press prefers to tell the story of the oppressed Tibetans or Uyghurs. Or the famous case of a picture of Chinese riot police looking menacing, but with the Tibetan monk throwing a molotov cocktail cropped out of the picture by BBC or CNN. Maybe it is not even the journalists' desire to distort. But back home, the story of evil China oppressing the poor Tibetans sells more copies.
WRT Jason's frequently saying that China has no "basic freedoms"... I don't know what to say. I have a very selfish POV but I actually am very happy that freedoms are curtailed. If you've lived here long enough, maybe you'll feel the same way too, maybe not... I don't know. If China becomes a democracy like India, with freedoms of all kinds granted... the country may well become unlivable. Every country has trouble makers but with the huge population of China, even if a small percentage go out of control, it would be a massive problem.
There are some points here I like to make comparing China to India. China isn't fragmented and divided along as many lines - racial, language, wealth, religious, geographical, castes - like India. Rioting by Tamils or low-castes in the south will be ignored or even suppressed by Hindi-speakers or high-borns of the north, as a clumsy example. In China, everyone speaks the same language, are not divided along religious lines (in general) and even the poorest have access to a mobile phone and the internet. The only obvious division is that of a wealthy minority vs the middle class or poor majority. So a little spark of an idea - like the same one of 1989 - can spread like wildfire across the entire China grounding it to a halt. This danger is ever more likely with more and more becoming jobless and the income gap widens.
Freedom is wayy... overrated and I hate how the West keep using it as a stick to beat the Chinese. Many of you know about the control and corruption etc that occurs in China and therefore feels the CCP should be ousted etc.
But China has NEVER once, in its history been a nation of freedoms. China today is more free than it has EVER been in its long tumultuous history. You'd be fooling yourself to think that Chinese people here are suffering under a despotic regime like never before and are ready to rise up and overthrow the government etc.
People aren't killed off or spirited away to labour camps for the slightest infringement. If you don't raise the ire of the regime - repeatedly - you can live very comfortably, holiday in France and even buy a Maserati or two. I've never seen so many fucking Maseratis, Lamborghinis, Hummers etc in my whole life as in Shanghai.
And also take note that people whom are oppressed in China DO protest and riot, and this is on the increase.
But another country, which has a very distinct and discriminating class system, where slavery of the poorest is standard, and women get burnt alive daily, deadly rapes are an epidemic and generally very high crime rates, a hopeless police force, unimaginable scale of corruption, child prostitution commonplace, high infant mortality, high illiteracy, many armed insurgencies and banditry.... is well-liked and supported by the West. Simply because it has a "democratic" label.
Of course I'm talking about India.
Nobody beats India with the "freedoms" or "human rights" stick yet it is the serious offender on both issues. No, just wear the "democracy" label and you'd be absolved.
India's democracy is not a true democracy like you find in developed places like Taiwan, Korea and Japan. At best, democracy in India is for those who can afford it. For the 90% of the country that lives in rural areas or in poverty, their votes are given to whomever wields the biggest stick to beat them, or whomever gives more cash incentives at the polling stations. Either way the poor lose. Theirs is a battle at subsistence level. Who talks about political freedom when you have to sell your daughter off so the son can eat for another week? When Indians protest about police or government corruption they get beaten up by the police or thrown in jail just like in China. But only China is the human rights abuser and oppressor of freedoms.
But I'll stop myself from saying that what India need is a good dictatorship, because even that can also go either way.
I can't think of an alternative government type that would suit China. The Western saying "If it ain't broke..." truly applies here. No matter how much freedoms a "democracy" like India offers, I really, really, really wouldn't want to be a Indian citizen. Especially after I have seen and experienced what a "no freedoms" country like China can offer.
It's not just because I am more well-off than the average Chinese that I say this. Even if I was a poor farmer, I would rather be a poor farmer in China than India or any other so-called democracies you find in Asia. There are poor people everywhere including the West and the poor inadvertently gets screwed over. But at least in a so-called no freedom country like China, the poor are more free than those living in indentured slavery in India. And the poor in China very often fought back, and are still around to talk about it.
Edited by chino, 05 August 2014 - 1147 AM.