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#1 Corinthian

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 2104 PM

Good, bad, doesn't really matter?

 

Your thoughts.


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#2 Ssnake

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 0206 AM

Would hurt everybody badly, accomplish very little.

 

The idea is so stupid, I'm still somewhat stunned that it gained traction at all.


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#3 Adam_S

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 0219 AM

Good idea. I'm not opposed to the idea of a federal Europe per se, but the EU in its current form is a festering turd that's not fit for purpose.


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#4 Marek Tucan

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 0306 AM

Brexit is much like Scotchxit. The Exit party does not provide answer "what then" apart frm "Making Britain Great Again" and some castles on the cloud ("Of course we won't get hit by any tarrifs..." "Of course the US will treat us still the same in trade...") - it really is so similar to the Scottis independence arguments it's funny :)
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#5 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 0307 AM

If you look at Britain since WW2 making a near unerring series of uniquely poor decisions then yes, I think its kind of inevitable we will vote to pull out.

 

As for why, well its a combination of remarkably stupid right wing politicians who are convinced we are still an Empire, economists who will throw everything under the bus to turn London into the next Singapore, and well meaning people who have the naive faith that everything they read in UK newspapers is copper bottomed fact, rather than honey coated bilge from the Murdoch Pravda.

 

Not that the EU has done a particularly great job at welcoming the UK to the EU. In fact you can trace much of the present problem down the self serving prick De Gaulle. It took, what, 15 years to get into the EU? Look at the haste everyone fell over themselves to get Greece in. :D


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#6 Marek Tucan

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 0412 AM

Greece has beaches, olives, wine, gyros... What do you have? (well, apart from English breakfast ;))


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#7 Panzermann

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 0414 AM

Not that the EU has done a particularly great job at welcoming the UK to the EU. In fact you can trace much of the present problem down the self serving prick De Gaulle. It took, what, 15 years to get into the EU? Look at the haste everyone fell over themselves to get Greece in. :D


Brits were just as much pricks as de Gaulle. Two former empires not admitting that they are no more.
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#8 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 0417 AM

 

Not that the EU has done a particularly great job at welcoming the UK to the EU. In fact you can trace much of the present problem down the self serving prick De Gaulle. It took, what, 15 years to get into the EU? Look at the haste everyone fell over themselves to get Greece in. :D


Brits were just as much pricks as de Gaulle. Two former empires not admitting that they are no more.

 

Not true. The ONLY reason De Gaulle had a wartime role at all was down to the British. Roosevelt could see no use politically for him, it was only Churchill that demanded a role politically for De Gaulle in the alliance, and that contributed mightily to Frances prestige postwar. And De Gaulles for that matter. A point they seldom give Churchill credit for.

And where exactly did we slight the French postwar? Port Said? Hardly a good enough reason to block British membership of the EEC dont you think?  And dont mistake, De Gaulle took sadistic pleasure in denying it to Macmillian, for reasons one can only really guess at. All that baggage was carried through to Britains entry into the EU, and I would argue still is.  You should watch the Andrew Marr history of Britain, where he covers Macmillans (many) attempts to get into the EEC. De Gaulle at a French cabinet meeting quoted the Edith Piaff Song 'Dont Cry my Lord', to much merriment. Thats how bad Anglo French relations were in the 1960s.

Britain found the EEC sewed up between France and Germany when it entered in the 1970, which might have been in marked contrast to our somewhat stronger economy in the early 60s. And that is a feeling that has been very hard to shake off, whether it is still true or not. Our politicians always proclaim its being run to the advantage of someone else and we are getting shafted, and in fairness they are not altogether wrong. Why should it take a PM threatening to leave before we actually get the concessions we ask for?


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 23 March 2016 - 1042 AM.

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#9 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 0419 AM

Greece has beaches, olives, wine, gyros... What do you have? (well, apart from English breakfast ;))

Nuclear Weapons?

 

No wonder the French didnt want us in. Their uniqueness in the ability to create holocaust would have been called into question. :)


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#10 Simon Tan

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 1230 PM

Exit. Europe as a political entity is a failure by design.
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#11 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 1236 PM

We could have said that in 1940 as well Simon. :)


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#12 urbanoid

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 1239 PM

That would both lessen the chances of the EU getting badly needed reforms (and that doesn't mean tighter integration, quite the contrary) and increase the chances of break-up of the EU as a whole.


Edited by urbanoid, 23 March 2016 - 1239 PM.

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#13 Simon Tan

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 1243 PM

Brexit leading to EU collapse is the idea.
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#14 Panzermann

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 1245 PM

But he is right insofar as the European Union as it is at the moment is broken by design. And those in the position to reform this (the governments) are not really interested.
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#15 cbo

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 1413 PM

Brexit leading to EU collapse is the idea.

 

Ok, but will Britain then please stay out of Europe instead of keeping the pot boliing by supporting continental weakling states like you did in WWI and WWII. If you really dont care and think you will do best on your own, then by all means. But then let the Germans run the show the way the want without England trying its feeble best to f*ck op the masterplan.

 

Come to think of it...... Nordic countries, Germany, Holland, Austria, possibly the Czechs as the center and Poland, Slovakia, Baltic States, Hungary, Romania, Slovenia and Bulgaria providing cheap workforce. Does sort of ring a bell.....

 

If England stays out of it, we can quickly get the Frogs aligned with the program....

 

:D


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#16 Mike Steele

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 1419 PM

Good idea. I'm not opposed to the idea of a federal Europe per se, but the EU in its current form is a festering turd that's not fit for purpose.

This.


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#17 Allan Wotherspoon

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 1440 PM

Greece has beaches, olives, wine, gyros... What do you have? (well, apart from English breakfast ;))


The Tank Museum at Bovington. Surely that's more than enough?
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#18 Mike Steele

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 1446 PM

 

Greece has beaches, olives, wine, gyros... What do you have? (well, apart from English breakfast ;))


The Tank Museum at Bovington. Surely that's more than enough?

 

Well the Monkey World might be a bigger draw....


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#19 swerve

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 1620 PM

If you look at Britain since WW2 making a near unerring series of uniquely poor decisions then yes, I think its kind of inevitable we will vote to pull out.

 

As for why, well its a combination of remarkably stupid right wing politicians who are convinced we are still an Empire, economists who will throw everything under the bus to turn London into the next Singapore, and well meaning people who have the naive faith that everything they read in UK newspapers is copper bottomed fact, rather than honey coated bilge from the Murdoch Pravda.

 

Not that the EU has done a particularly great job at welcoming the UK to the EU. In fact you can trace much of the present problem down the self serving prick De Gaulle. It took, what, 15 years to get into the EU? Look at the haste everyone fell over themselves to get Greece in. :D

We initially refused to get involved. We didn't need no steenking continentals! We didn't even attend the meetings that set up the ECSC, despite being invited, & withdrew from the Messina Conference. When the EEC was formed despite our refusal to participate, we tried setting up an alternative, EFTA - but it was damned feeble compared to the EEC. We bit the bullet after a few years & applied to join, but while we'd been dismissing it &  trying to disrupt things de Gaulle had happened, & he didn't want any interference with the nice tidy arrangement he had with West Germany to run the thing.He may also have suspected that our intention was to be a spoiler, after our previous behaviour.

 

From when we first applied to when we joined was 10 years. Before that we'd spent 12 years alternating between ignoring moves towards economic co-operation in Europe & being disruptive.

 

If we'd been in from the start we might have been able to get some improvements, e.g. in the CAP, but by the time of Macmillan's volte-face that was all done & dusted & it was take it or leave it.


Edited by swerve, 23 March 2016 - 1621 PM.

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#20 Allan Wotherspoon

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 2327 PM

 

 

Greece has beaches, olives, wine, gyros... What do you have? (well, apart from English breakfast ;))


The Tank Museum at Bovington. Surely that's more than enough?

 

Well the Monkey World might be a bigger draw....

 

Infidel!  Burn him! :D


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