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Meanwhile In The Baltic Republics And Poland...


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#2621 bd1

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 1458 PM

https://twitter.com/...255490434719745

 

 

 

Wilensky retired from the Soviet army in 1972 — and spent the next decade as a refusenik. His children repatriated to Israel, but he wasn't allowed to join them until 1983. He was stripped of all his medals and awards and his name was scrubbed from the registry of Heroes of USSR.

 

 

 

After repatriation Wilensky was awarded the honorary title of Colonel of the Israel Defence Forces. He died in 1992 in Bat Yam, his decorations never returned by the Soviets, and post-Soviet Russia was just too chaotic to care. His memoirs are titled "The Twists of Fate."

 

was it a russian who gave this picture to bibi and is he still alive?  or already digesting  novichok/polonium borchch?  :D


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#2622 Roman Alymov

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 1641 PM

https://twitter.com/...255490434719745

 

 

Wilensky retired from the Soviet army in 1972 — and spent the next decade as a refusenik. His children repatriated to Israel, but he wasn't allowed to join them until 1983. He was stripped of all his medals and awards and his name was scrubbed from the registry of Heroes of USSR.

 

 

 

Relying on Russian liberals as source is leading you into troubles. Vilensky applied for leaving to Israel in 1976, so your decade was actually 7 years long. His name was not “scrubbed from the registry of Heroes of USSR” as there is no such registry, but it was not included into short glossary of Heroes of USSR printed in 1987  - despite of this his name (among others) is engraved on the wall of Hall of Fame of Great Patriotic War museum in Moscow. Soviet practice for long time was considering awards state property (so, for example, relatives were often not allowed to keep awards after hero’s death) – do not surprising many of those leaving USSR were not allowed to take awards with them. Many people in Russia now looking for ways to get their relatives awards back – but unfortunately it is impossible since they were not kept in some storage but melted to re-use precious metals (except very few that were kept in museums). Following Presidential law signed in 2008, it is possible to apply for copies of awards, but it is long process. Generally, USSR was newer strong in bureaucratic processes – for example, about 3 millions of awards remained not given  to heroes after WWII end.
In 2015, last surviving (of 6 in Israel) WWII Hero of Soviet Union died in Israel, aged 91 – note he somehow having his award (or copy of it) – but he emigrated in 1991, when rules were almost gone
cc947675ce0ac0c98617f27425843c35_L.jpg
http://www.jewmil.co...yakov-tsalevich

 

 

was it a russian who gave this picture to bibi and is he still alive?  or already digesting  novichok/polonium borchch?  :D

Again, indicating how little you know of modern Russia. Having problems with USSR officials over issues like emigration to Israel is now not some sort of shameful past here – for example Yakov Kedmi, who have burned his passport of a Soviet citizen on Red Square in 1969 and repeatedly forced his way to Israel embassy, is popular speaker in Russian MSM now
https://trendexmexic...fiya-semya.html


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#2623 bd1

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 1341 PM

 

 

Relying on Russian liberals as source is leading you into troubles. Vilensky applied for leaving to Israel in 1976, so your decade was actually 7 years long. His name was not “scrubbed from the registry of Heroes of USSR” as there is no such registry, but it was not included into short glossary of Heroes of USSR printed in 1987  - despite of this his name (among others) is engraved on the wall of Hall of Fame of Great Patriotic War museum in Moscow. Soviet practice for long time was considering awards state property (so, for example, relatives were often not allowed to keep awards after hero’s death) – do not surprising many of those leaving USSR were not allowed to take awards with them. Many people in Russia now looking for ways to get their relatives awards back – but unfortunately it is impossible since they were not kept in some storage but melted to re-use precious metals (except very few that were kept in museums). Following Presidential law signed in 2008, it is possible to apply for copies of awards, but it is long process. Generally, USSR was newer strong in bureaucratic processes – for example, about 3 millions of awards remained not given  to heroes after WWII end.

so he was detained for 7 years in russia (not 10) and was stripped of his awards, the main points of the tweet still stand true?

 

the second part was attempt of joke, obviously failed one. and yes, my interest in russia is purely security-related (and dashcam-) and i intend to keep it that way  :)


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#2624 Roman Alymov

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 1859 PM

so he was detained for 7 years in russia (not 10) and was stripped of his awards, the main points of the tweet still stand true?

 

 

 

the second part was attempt of joke, obviously failed one. and yes, my interest in russia is purely security-related (and dashcam-) and i intend to keep it that way  :)

 

Not “detained” but stayed in high managerial position waiting to be allowed to leave (and, taking into account his military career, it is actually surprising he was allowed to – imagine retired Western division commander being allowed to leave to, let’s say, Cuba). “stripped of his awards” is also wrong- see above, it was standard practice to not allow awards insignia to leave the country or even stay in family after awarded person’s death, but it does not mean “stripped of his awards” (legal action of officially voiding the awards).


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#2625 Roman Alymov

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 1920 PM

Strange development in US\Poland relations

Poles Irate as Trump Signs Justice for Uncompensated Survivors Today Act

http://www.jewishpre...act/2018/05/10/

 

Spoiler

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#2626 Leo Niehorster

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 0040 AM

Not allowing medals to leave the country is practiced in other countrries as well. In some cases even having to return them upon the death of the recipient, especially the highest awards.


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#2627 lastdingo

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 0522 AM

it is actually surprising he was allowed to – imagine retired Western division commander being allowed to leave to, let’s say, Cuba).


He would simply board a flight to some Latin American country with a visa, get a visa to Cuby there at the Cuban embassy and then board a flight to Cuba, period.
No permission required from his government at home. It's called freedom.


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#2628 Yama

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 0551 AM

it is actually surprising he was allowed to – imagine retired Western division commander being allowed to leave to, let’s say, Cuba).


He would simply board a flight to some Latin American country with a visa, get a visa to Cuby there at the Cuban embassy and then board a flight to Cuba, period.
No permission required from his government at home. It's called freedom.


Ie...defect? :)

Edited by Yama, 14 May 2018 - 0552 AM.

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#2629 lastdingo

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 0841 AM

The difference is that a Western high-ranking foficer would be gone, using his freedom to travel, before he could be stopped.

The Soviets were enough in control (and the subjects unfree enough) that such a person was and would be stopped.


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#2630 BansheeOne

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 0936 AM

I don't even know how you would stop any non-US retired officer from going directly to Cuba or any other country with no general travel ban in place, without any detours through third countries, even if the government wanted to. You're only ever asked whether you have been to any suspicious countries to get a security clearance. After you're out, it's nobody's legal business where you live.


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#2631 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 0951 AM

My father, when he worked for the MOD at a fairly low level, was told that he would have to ask permission to visit the Communist Bloc. Although I dont think there is anything they could have done should he have decided to go, short of firing him afterwards.

 

Mind you, this is the same MOD that apparently classified the colour of the Toilet paper, so im not sure how representative it is of Western Democracies at the time.


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#2632 BansheeOne

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 1052 AM

I'm sure all sorts of travel bans were in place for active military personnel, including civilian staffers. Once they're retired though? I mean, we're talking of free democratic systems which in the 80s allowed former flag officers to form a group like "Generals for Peace" to agitate against NATO policy, with a dozen members from various NATO countries like MGs Gert Bastian and Günter Vollmer (GER), MG Johan Christie (NOR), FM Francisco de Costa Gomes (POR), BG Michael Harbottle (UK), LG Georgios Koumanakos (GRC), MG Chiel von Meijenfeldt (NL), and Admirals Militades Papathanassiou (GRC) and Antoine Sanguinetti (FRA). Which turned out post-Cold War to have been inspired, and financed to the tune of 100,000 German Marks annually, by the Stasi and KGB via Darmstadt Technical University teacher Gerhard Kade, a main influence agent for them on the West German peace movement. To the point where their speeches were written in East Berlin.

 

Not that anybody was in doubt about its background at the time. Others like General Wolf von Baudissin, one of the Bundeswehr's founding fathers, saw the light early on after they tried to drag him in, and Generals Bastian, Meijenfeldt and others attended a screening of a film made about the group by DDR propagandists Walter Heynowski and Gerhard Scheumann in East Berlin in 1986. Bastian for his part suffered no ill effects after resigning from command of 12th Panzer Division and Bundeswehr service in protest over the NATO Double Track Decision in 1980 - joined the Greens, and was elected to the Bundestag in 1983. Some suspected foul play when he shot himself and his girlfriend, Green party and peace movement icon Petra Kelly, in 1992, but no evidence has ever been established; more likely he was just another guy who saw his world break down after the end of the Cold War.


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#2633 Roman Alymov

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 1714 PM

For the record, I am far from saying Soviet system was ideal. Actually very few people in modern Russia idealize USSR in all aspects. After all, ideal systems do not fail. Probably it was well expressed recently by President Putin, who replied to Communist Party leader Zuganov’s usual rhetoric of “How good was USSR, how bad is modern Russia” with something like “Yes USSR was good, but let me remind you it was your Communist Party in power when it failed”.


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