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#201 Mikel2

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 0743 AM

A research APC sort of vehicle with in-wheel motors that enable it to pivot like a tracked vehicle.

 

I like the variable wheel speed.  Hydraulic motors in each wheel?


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#202 Panzermann

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 0817 AM

A research APC sort of vehicle with in-wheel motors that enable it to pivot like a tracked vehicle.
youtube.com/watch?v=zDEkzCYDF3k

 
I like the variable wheel speed.  Hydraulic motors in each wheel?


electric motors

why bother with high pressure hydraulic fluid?
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#203 Panzermann

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 0848 AM

A research APC sort of vehicle with in-wheel motors that enable it to pivot like a tracked vehicle.

 
Sounds like a very interesting project.  But I do have to wonder how much more maintenance that would involve for any wheeled AFV?  It can't be just as simple as changing the wheel and you're on the road again, can it?


Less maintenance over all. Electric motors are pretty low maintenance adn you do not have to care for a gear box anymore. the internal combustion engine workss as generator for electricity and thus runs mostly on a narrower and thus more efficient RPM band and thus less maintenance. Also no longe you have to care for drive shafts runnung all through the floor of the vehicle and to each wheel station. instead just power cables and wires for computer control to each wheel station. If there is a problem with hte hub motors, just take the whole wheel off and replace it while it is repaired. Also with nifty programming of microcontrollers you can adjust each wheel's speed to the turning radius while driving a road turn. which creates less wear on the tires.


 

https://www.youktube...h?v=WfPBdnlm6-c

longer video of the same event with a Type-X demonstratitng the height adjustable suspension and other things. Is that AEV remote controlled?
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#204 JasonJ

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 0920 AM

The in-wheel motors is a independent dispersed drive design. Looks like all 6 wheels get a motor. Its part of a two vehicle design both of which are meant to be 15 tons, meaning that 1 can be lifted by C-130 and 2 can be lifted by C-2. One design has a 105mm gun and the other design carries passengers. Here is a PDF on it.

http://www.mod.go.jp...ge/pdf/o1-9.pdf


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#205 JasonJ

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 1001 AM

 

 

 

 

 




 

https://www.youktube...h?v=WfPBdnlm6-c

longer video of the same event with a Type-X demonstratitng the height adjustable suspension and other things. Is that AEV remote controlled?

 

 

Yeah, and there are a few other variants, and your link only works when that k is erased. A couple of others:

https://www.youtube....h?v=MPvWvavzfxU

https://www.youtube....h?v=PeEr0IBmvkE


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#206 Gavin-Phillips

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 1009 AM

 

 

A research APC sort of vehicle with in-wheel motors that enable it to pivot like a tracked vehicle.

 
Sounds like a very interesting project.  But I do have to wonder how much more maintenance that would involve for any wheeled AFV?  It can't be just as simple as changing the wheel and you're on the road again, can it?

 


Less maintenance over all. Electric motors are pretty low maintenance adn you do not have to care for a gear box anymore. the internal combustion engine workss as generator for electricity and thus runs mostly on a narrower and thus more efficient RPM band and thus less maintenance. Also no longe you have to care for drive shafts runnung all through the floor of the vehicle and to each wheel station. instead just power cables and wires for computer control to each wheel station. If there is a problem with hte hub motors, just take the whole wheel off and replace it while it is repaired. Also with nifty programming of microcontrollers you can adjust each wheel's speed to the turning radius while driving a road turn. which creates less wear on the tires.


 

https://www.youktube...h?v=WfPBdnlm6-c

longer video of the same event with a Type-X demonstratitng the height adjustable suspension and other things. Is that AEV remote controlled?

 

Thank you for the detailed explaination.  Certainly sounds like an interesting project.  I do believe I have heard of similar developments in ultra-large earthmoving dump trucks before but not sure what came of it.


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#207 Ken Estes

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 1353 PM

Ferdinand Porsche would have felt justified. Yet this shows how long it has taken for automotive technology to expand and provide sound engineering for AFV applications.


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#208 Panzermann

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 1504 PM

 

 



Thank you for the detailed explaination.  Certainly sounds like an interesting project.  I do believe I have heard of similar developments in ultra-large earthmoving dump trucks before but not sure what came of it.

 

You are welcome. :)

 

The really big dump trucks have used  diesel-electric drive for decades, simpy because a gear box to transfer the power would be too big, expensive and weak. So electric motors are used to propel the trucks. I guess a gear box would break and spit out its sprockets, if you tried hill-starting a fully loaded dump truck in one of those deep open pit mines.

 

Pretty much the same reason a behemoth like the Maus could  only be made mobile with electric motors, because a gear box durable enough for the horse power required was just not possible in the 1940ies.

 

 

 

Ferdinand Porsche would have felt justified. Yet this shows how long it has taken for automotive technology to expand and provide sound engineering for AFV applications.

 

Porsche had kind of love-affair with this drive concept for very sound theoretical reasons, but especially the controllers were not up to the task regulating the electricity for motors in WW2. Nowadays there are microcontrollers for the power electronics making these parts much more reliable and less prone to burn out. Hurray for solid state!


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#209 DB

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 0621 AM

I may have mentioned them before, but a Chinese company called Protean is developing hub motors for automotive applications , partly in the UK.
http://www.proteanelectric.com
Their current design spec is 75kW per hub, which would of course be 600hp in a six wheeler. Which seems adequate to me.
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#210 JasonJ

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 0644 AM

The PDF of the APC has the motors at 44kw thus by a quick converter makes just 60 hp. 60x6 makes 360 which seems a little low for a 15 ton military vehicle. The Protean hubs with 100hp each sounds so much better.
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#211 Rich

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 0905 AM

Ferdinand Porsche would have felt justified. Yet this shows how long it has taken for automotive technology to expand and provide sound engineering for AFV applications.

 

So would Gladeon Barnes.


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#212 JasonJ

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 0957 AM

I may have mentioned them before, but a Chinese company called Protean is developing hub motors for automotive applications , partly in the UK.
http://www.proteanelectric.com
Their current design spec is 75kW per hub, which would of course be 600hp in a six wheeler. Which seems adequate to me.

 

Looking around some more at in-wheel motors and a basic specification that they have is output in the forms of both peak and continuous for both hp and torque. So the Protean model has the 100hp but that is peak. In continuous, it has 72hp.

http://www.proteanel...specifications/

 

Some other car types of in-wheel motors.

http://in-wheel.com/...ategory/motors/

 

The motor in the Japanese vehicle has the 44kw (60hp) for "less than 31 seconds of acceleration" as in "short time rated value output". Probably closer to "continuous" than "peak".

 

When it comes to torque, the peak output torque of the Protean is listed as 1250Nm and continuous is listed as 650Nm while the "instant highest torque" of the Japanese vehicle motor is listed as 18.5kNm and "short time highest torque" listed as 14.5kNm, thus 18500Nm and 14500Nm.

 

So very different designs for these in-wheel motors.


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#213 Ken Estes

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 1013 AM

 

Ferdinand Porsche would have felt justified. Yet this shows how long it has taken for automotive technology to expand and provide sound engineering for AFV applications.

 

So would Gladeon Barnes.

 

 

Now there is a case where two nut cases should have met, somewhere in their lives....


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#214 Mr King

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 2008 PM

Throw  R.G. LeTourneau into that lunch date. 

 


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#215 Panzermann

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 0620 AM

specialised vehicles like Hobart's funnies. Not that crazy IMHO.

 

 

Liebherr manufactures bigger dump trucks today e.g.:

 

T284

Payload class 363.00 t Gross vehicle weight (GVW) 600.00 t Gross HP (SAE J1995) at 1900 rpm 3,000 kW

 

https://www.liebherr...tails/t284.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ferdinand Porsche would have felt justified. Yet this shows how long it has taken for automotive technology to expand and provide sound engineering for AFV applications.

 

So would Gladeon Barnes.

 

 

Now there is a case where two nut cases should have met, somewhere in their lives....

 

 

 

Now imagine the M6 Heavy Tank as designed by Porsche!


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#216 DB

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 1904 PM

 

I may have mentioned them before, but a Chinese company called Protean is developing hub motors for automotive applications , partly in the UK.
http://www.proteanelectric.com
Their current design spec is 75kW per hub, which would of course be 600hp in a six wheeler. Which seems adequate to me.

 

Looking around some more at in-wheel motors and a basic specification that they have is output in the forms of both peak and continuous for both hp and torque. So the Protean model has the 100hp but that is peak. In continuous, it has 72hp.

http://www.proteanel...specifications/

 

Some other car types of in-wheel motors.

http://in-wheel.com/...ategory/motors/

 

The motor in the Japanese vehicle has the 44kw (60hp) for "less than 31 seconds of acceleration" as in "short time rated value output". Probably closer to "continuous" than "peak".

 

When it comes to torque, the peak output torque of the Protean is listed as 1250Nm and continuous is listed as 650Nm while the "instant highest torque" of the Japanese vehicle motor is listed as 18.5kNm and "short time highest torque" listed as 14.5kNm, thus 18500Nm and 14500Nm.

 

So very different designs for these in-wheel motors.

 

 

Continuous rating means that it should run for hours at that rate, not seconds. For internal combustion engines, continuous rating is tested for 100s if not 1000s of hours (on a dynamometer) when developing an engine for reliability.

 

 

Nevertheless, you're quite right about the differences in design between the two motors. The Protean motor is designed to match the requirements of a mid- to high-end road car, using two or four motors I'd guess. It needs to be light and have high speed to get somewhere near 150mph top speed, and probably on 17-20 inch wheels depending on what they're trying to match - something like the Hybrid Lexus models, or perhaps the Teslas.

 

If the design was upscaled to the big wheels of a 6x6, you can be sure that it would look and act a lot more like the Japanese military motor.


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#217 FlyingCanOpener

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 2043 PM

Throw  R.G. LeTourneau into that lunch date. 

 

 

He also started an engineering school, which yours truly is a product of. One of the plants is not far from the campus and the absolutely quirky diesel-electric machines that come out of it is astounding. He seemed to prefer electrically-powered wheels over tracks, IIRC mainly over maintenance concerns since LeTourneau machines did things like logging in the Amazon or Borneo light years from adequate maintenance facilities.


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#218 Mr King

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 0736 AM

That is pretty cool FCO and must have been a neat experience. I was not aware they made anything besides front end loaders these days. 

 

aK4nziy.jpg


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#219 Jim Warford

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 2335 PM

I guess they were late for something...


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#220 DogDodger

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 0014 AM

All the tracks and wheels stayed on. :)
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