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U.s. Army Ordered To Grow Again


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#41 EchoFiveMike

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 1653 PM

Solid state lasers combined with scanning TI solves the drone problem.  S/F....Ken M


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#42 Chris Werb

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 1743 PM

Solid state lasers combined with scanning TI solves the drone problem.  S/F....Ken M

 

Lasers have essentially infinite range which potentially pose huge deconfliction problems. Also can the solid state laser point in four or forty different directions at once?


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#43 EchoFiveMike

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 1822 PM

Deconflict with what, space aliens?  It's LOS, with the only issue being specular reflections, and that's an eye safety issue solved by dudes wearing their eyepro.  Which admittedly the hidebound idiots won't bother to procure and issue until there's a lot of blind troops, but that's always how pogues are.  Instead of some bullet hose dusting off any unfortunates down range, you have a laser blinding or knocking down your drone threat.  This is the future of C-RAM too, but IMO/IME that's a step up in power required.  S/F....Ken M    


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#44 TTK Ciar

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 2122 PM

Solid state lasers combined with scanning TI solves the drone problem.  S/F....Ken M


Lasers have essentially infinite range which potentially pose huge deconfliction problems. Also can the solid state laser point in four or forty different directions at once?

At once? No. But they can be steered very quickly.

There are also microwave weapons with lobe-like areas of effect. They can be shielded against, but not very easily. Your drones will likely be losing their radios and optics.

http://www.defense-a...-(oct.-26).html

https://thaimilitary...-energy-weapon/
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#45 AETiglathPZ

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 2323 PM

The tests with AIM-9 fired off refurbished Avenger were actually quite reasonable compared to many (V)ShoRAD efforts world-wide. Most of them are too short-ranged. I doubt that significant quantities of AIM-9X would be available for army AD, though. AIM-9M past initial shelf life make more sense.

 

AD against drones appears to be in a brainstorming phase. Lots of efforts look ridiculous, impractical and even delusional to me. The main drone threat will soon be really tiny ones, and you will need ubiquitous systems with super short reaction times and not much range against them. My bet is on RCWS with additional sensors for 360° 24/7 surveillance.

What did they do with all the old Chapparal missiles? I remember the vehicles, being deactivated, being lined up at Ft.Hood around 1993.

https://en.wikipedia...IM-72_Chaparral

 

 

1)Would think a conventional SHORAD with a the usual gun, Stinger size missile, Sidewinder size missile for conventional sized drones, cruise missiles, and aircraft.

 

2)That SHORAD vehicle would be mated to a 360 degree AESA RADAR with a SNAP, CRACKLE, and POP mode for electronic ranged attack against bug drones.

https://news.usni.or...ttack-abilities

 

3) For self defense the SHORAD unit would have a TROPHY like AMS system.

 

 

 

For other armored vehicle like tanks a more Advanced Trophy type AMS with a Electronic attack mode using the RADAR for self defense.

 

 

 

For infantry, I don't know. In the future having dominance in SIGNALS will be just a important as having dominance in Air to Air. Having  swarms of bug drones attacking infantry and support troops would be disastrous. Best way is to find and kill the operators of any remote control drones and disrupt C4i capabilities that control the drones themselves.


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#46 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 1314 PM

Solid state lasers combined with scanning TI solves the drone problem.  S/F....Ken M

 

How are you going to carry a solid state laser with an Infantry squad?  The big battlefield drones are fairly easy to counter. Its the ones you can buy in your local hobby shop that are going to be the problem.

 

There are some interesting ideas on there, but again, all very short range.

 


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 11 November 2018 - 1317 PM.

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#47 lastdingo

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 1645 PM

1)Would think a conventional SHORAD with a the usual gun, Stinger size missile, Sidewinder size missile for conventional sized drones, cruise missiles, and aircraft.

I suppose it takes two missiles;

  • one high-performing one against combat aircraft - and this one should have the energy to engage at all FLIR ranges, so attacking aircraft cannot safely bomb from 15k ft as against ManPADS and AAA. It should also be lock-on-after-launch-capable, to deal with terrain following threats. An active radar-guided missile such as AMARAAM-ER might even be used as anti-radar missile against battlefield radars operating in its radar band (typically this would be x band).
  • one FOGM to deal with nap-of-the-earth attack and other helicopters (indirect shot) based on not inaccurate infrasound triangulations (FOGM allows to actually search the area, and even find & engage landed helos that stopped their rotors). This one can serve ground attack purposes as well.
  • one super cheap one. Decent better-than-ManPADS SAMs can easily cost more than a cruise missile and even most ManPADS munitions cost more than most glide bombs, so we need a really cheap interceptor munition. Lasers are strictly LOS and largely useless against terrain-following cruise missiles. Low-hanging dark clouds mess with lasers as well, even more than with IIR.

And that's just a small part of what Western land-based air defences should possess.


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#48 Chris Werb

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 1654 PM

 

 

Solid state lasers combined with scanning TI solves the drone problem.  S/F....Ken M


Lasers have essentially infinite range which potentially pose huge deconfliction problems. Also can the solid state laser point in four or forty different directions at once?

At once? No. But they can be steered very quickly.

There are also microwave weapons with lobe-like areas of effect. They can be shielded against, but not very easily. Your drones will likely be losing their radios and optics.

http://www.defense-a...-(oct.-26).html

https://thaimilitary...-energy-weapon/

 

 

Given that drones can fly NoE, around and even into buildings, loiter, land, and pop up essentially anywhere, you're going to have to be very careful where you point those things if you don't want to take out your own radios, optics, eyeballs etc.


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#49 DB

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 0914 AM

Yes, Chris. But not firing them leads to losing the assets anyway.

We simply don't have the capability to respond to massive swarms using anything kinetic. And unless you have the ability to overmatch EMI hardening, you can't prevent defence saturation with current technology maturity levels.

On the other hand, deploying really big drone swarms costs money and isnt a mature tech either, a few light dusplays notwithstanding.
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#50 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 1000 AM

As far as small drones, it pre ww1. Everyone is still experimenting to see whether they are useful, or even viable. I noticed some of the Russian Airborne units had drone carrier modified BTR-D's IIRC. So someone is taking it seriously.


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