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Could The Germans Have Successfully Propagated Sealion Without Air Supremacy


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#561 Adam_S

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 0440 AM

I've never seen much evidence of that. I believe they were meant to serve as part of the overall Soviet strategy for summer 1943 though and to either take advantage of relative German weakness on those parts of the front.


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#562 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 0504 AM

Ok, well fair enough then.


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#563 Nobu

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 1238 PM

If those 2 Soviet offensives were launched to take weight off of the Allies, they succeeded, as the decision to send only the LAH back in response to Husky feels like a compromise.

 

Its destination of northern Italy feels like another, as a political demonstration farther south in the vicinity of Rome and the Vatican might have made more of a political impact.

 

The strategic minds running the USAAF out of Italy might have disagreed, but 600-bomber missions against Ploesti in July might have been better spent operationally in shuttle carpet attacks in direct support of the Russian army groups that would capture Ploesti in August. Especially considering the eventual order that would be issued to the Ploesti garrison: Destroy all facilities to prevent their falling intact into Soviet hands.


Edited by Nobu, 24 March 2020 - 2327 PM.

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#564 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 0255 AM

If those 2 Soviet offensives were launched to take weight off of the Allies, they succeeded, as the decision to send only the LAH back in response to Husky feels like a compromise.

 

Its destination of northern Italy feels like another, as a political demonstration farther south in the vicinity of Rome and the Vatican might have made more of a political impact.

 

The strategic minds running the USAAF out of Italy might have disagreed, but 600-bomber missions against Ploesti in July might have been better spent operationally in shuttle carpet attacks in direct support of the Russian army groups that would capture Ploesti in August. Especially considering the eventual order that would be issued to the Ploesti garrison: Destroy all facilities to prevent their falling intact into Soviet hands.

They did try shuttle attacks in Russia but they were not a success. Google 'Poltava Air Base'. There was no way the USAAF was going to try Operation Frantic after June 21st again.


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#565 MiloMorai

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 0309 AM

Nobu, there was a Russian general killed by American a/c. There was also some Russian-USA air combat. Not deliberate but mis-Ided.


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#566 Nobu

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 1331 PM

Good reading on both the successful Poltava strike by the Luftwaffe, and on Frantic in general. The level of Russian-USA discord broke the thing, apparently.

 

If the American plan to set up an organizational structure for heavy shuttle bombing from Soviet territory had succeeded, later strikes from the Transbaikal would have added another dimension to the bombing campaign against Japan.

 

Russian-USA air combat sounds like something avoidable, not to mention idiotic.


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#567 MiloMorai

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 0253 AM

Both incidents I mentioned were initiated by the American. The first was in the Balkans where P-38s attacked a Russian convoy. The second was in the Berlin area where P-51s attacked La-5/7s thinking they were Fw190s.


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#568 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 0315 AM

I think they can be forgiven for the latter one, they do look damn similar as anyone who plays IL2 can testify. :D


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#569 MiloMorai

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 0600 AM

Americans weren't very good at a/c Iding. They attacked Mossies thinking they were Me410s. P-51B/Cs and P-47s had to have special stripes applied to them so there wouldn't be blue on blue attacks. Not that blue on blue was restricted to only the USAAF, the RAF had their share.

 

One story I remember reading was of a pilot formatting on a gaggle of fighters. To his horror, they were 109s.


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#570 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 0724 AM

Well the RAF had their moments for sure. I think the best known incident is the Battle of Barking Creek. Not Sailor Malan's finest hour.

https://en.wikipedia...f_Barking_Creek


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