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#441 Panzermann

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 0726 AM

 

A Lathe and a Press is all that's needed. Or a vise as in this guy's method. 

....

You can also do electrochemical method.

 

 

Which is imho easier to do on a kitchen table, when you do not have other more expensive tools. Also in the future laser sintering will become ever more durable and cheap so you can "print" all the pieces. 


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#442 DB

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 0921 AM

 

I think that a competent machinist could copy all parts of many firearms easily enough, with the exception of rifling, for which they'd need to know how it was done first so they could build a rig for it.

This applies to machined parts. Stamped parts would be trickier, but possible for some.

Although Chris has said there's not much evidence of illegal manufacture here, there are accounts of "hobbyist" reactivations for criminal use.


There is one simple reason fully hand made guns don't happen all to often is that even with guns that you can purchase every single part seperatly like the AR 15, M1911 or Ruger 10/22 it still requires a considerable skill and knowledge to put them together into a safe fully functional fire arm. People like that are rare and easily found by police officers and jail time being very high no sane gunsmith is going to risk it.

 

I made no claim about how long the gun would work for, or how well. (Watching the Anvil series of videos on C&Rsenal is very instructive. Hand made nad old stuff needs serious amounts of fettling.)


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#443 Chris Werb

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 0942 AM

 

 

A Lathe and a Press is all that's needed. Or a vise as in this guy's method. 

....

You can also do electrochemical method.

 

 

Which is imho easier to do on a kitchen table, when you do not have other more expensive tools. Also in the future laser sintering will become ever more durable and cheap so you can "print" all the pieces. 

 

 

What amazed me is that you can even laser sinter pressure bearing components to scale, at least for low pressure cartridges like .45ACP. I have seen a video of an almost entire M1911 made by laser sintering - the exception, for obvious reasons, were the springs. It worked flawlessly IIRC. I do think laser sintering is going to be out of reach of hobbyists and small time machinists for quite a while, but I am loathe to predict exactly how long.


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#444 rmgill

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 1009 AM

 

 

 

There is one simple reason fully hand made guns don't happen all to often is that even with guns that you can purchase every single part seperatly like the AR 15, M1911 or Ruger 10/22 it still requires a considerable skill and knowledge to put them together into a safe fully functional fire arm. People like that are rare and easily found by police officers and jail time being very high no sane gunsmith is going to risk it.

 

It depends on the demand and the cost to make vs import. Hand made is not all that difficult if someone is mechanically inclined. Given how I've had to show some college graduates how to use a screw driver, a lot of mechanical skills are mistaken as being unknowable which they actually are not. 

 

 

 

To be fair Ryan, making a working semiauto pistol (particularly one with a locked breech) from scratch is tricky - even manufacturers with hundreds of thousands of dollars to throw at it take time to get it right and sometimes fail. With Khyber pass copies you are looking at expertise passed down through generations, borne out of necessity - it's not something that would just pop up overnight. Furthermore I don't see a Khyber pass industry springing up in the event of a gun ban in a country already saturated with guns because it simply would not be necessary. 

 

My point is that you don't need a degree in mechanical engineering from a major technical university to make a firearm. Dudes in caves take bits of metal and hammer, saw and file it into firearms. They're crude but they function and given that they were hammered, filed and sawn into shape rather than machined, polished, gauged and micrometered. 


Edited by rmgill, 23 August 2019 - 1009 AM.

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#445 Wobbly Head

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 1122 AM


 

I think that a competent machinist could copy all parts of many firearms easily enough, with the exception of rifling, for which they'd need to know how it was done first so they could build a rig for it.

This applies to machined parts. Stamped parts would be trickier, but possible for some.

Although Chris has said there's not much evidence of illegal manufacture here, there are accounts of "hobbyist" reactivations for criminal use.

There is one simple reason fully hand made guns don't happen all to often is that even with guns that you can purchase every single part seperatly like the AR 15, M1911 or Ruger 10/22 it still requires a considerable skill and knowledge to put them together into a safe fully functional fire arm. People like that are rare and easily found by police officers and jail time being very high no sane gunsmith is going to risk it.
 
I made no claim about how long the gun would work for, or how well. (Watching the Anvil series of videos on C&Rsenal is very instructive. Hand made nad old stuff needs serious amounts of fettling.)

And I didn't make any claim about how easy it is to make a firearm. I do some gunsmithing even factory parts need some serious fitting on some models of firearm. Just getting parts requires registering with the parts supplier and all orders are done with credit cards no cash sales and I'm pretty sure they will report any suspicious orders. It's not car parts they are dealing with
Not to mention that of the 250,000 people who live in my area there are only five of us who do firearm repairs with formal training and I will not touch any restricted as it's just too much trouble getting the required licences and setup needed I do it more as a hobby. So it's not the fact of making firearms which can be easily made its the fact that if any are made in my area I would be one of the first doors the police knock on and I and every legitimate gun owner and business owner would do all they could to catch them so it's not worth the major jail time to do it. There is a reason there is so many stories about people getting caught making illeagle firearms it's not because it's easy to do it's because they are easy to catch.

Off course now the gun control crowd use every excuse to push their agenda and completely ignore simple facts you can get all the parts but there is going to be traceable records and it's not as simple as people say to assemble guns in fact I a lot of my side work is simple work that people thought they could do themselves.
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#446 rmgill

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 1405 PM

The cost benefit of making something that's illegal has a factor of what the risk is and what the benefit is. If there's a reasonable reward for it, people conduct all manner of illegal actions. 

 


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#447 MiloMorai

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 1636 PM

Was watching a TV documentary a couple of years ago on illegal gun manufacturing. In the doc it stated that many of the illegal guns in the USA were made in the Philippines. No idea if this is true or not.


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#448 Ivanhoe

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 1734 PM


Keep in mind that guns for criminals only need to last for 5 shots or so. Most of them aren't going to the range weekly, and as soon as its been used in a homicide or ADW, it goes in the river or landfill.
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#449 R011

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 1942 PM

Of course, they can always smuggle Kalashnikovs in from Mexico if the domestic supply of handguns dries up.
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#450 shep854

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 2157 PM

Or simply...
https://www.snopes.c...un-trafficking/
Was Ex-California State Senator and Gun Control Advocate Leland Yee Arrested for Gun Trafficking?
Even Snopes couldn't fudge it


Edited by shep854, 25 August 2019 - 1756 PM.

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#451 DB

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 1123 AM

The last two paragraphs show how far snopes has slipped from being a fact checker to being whatever you care to call it now.


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#452 rmgill

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 1137 AM

'Partisan hacks'?


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#453 Panzermann

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 1259 PM

The cost benefit of making something that's illegal has a factor of what the risk is and what the benefit is. If there's a reasonable reward for it, people conduct all manner of illegal actions.


They are entrepreneurs taking a business opportunity.


 

Keep in mind that guns for criminals only need to last for 5 shots or so. Most of them aren't going to the range weekly, and as soon as its been used in a homicide or ADW, it goes in the river or landfill.

 
In Europe there are cases of pistols being used in murders over years, decades even. The pistols are sold on on the black market after one hit. So one pistol can be part of a several unrelated crimes across Europe.

Edited by Panzermann, 24 August 2019 - 1300 PM.

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#454 Chris Werb

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 0140 AM

In the UK criminals pool guns and one pistol can be used in many crimes by many criminals. We are talking organised crime, usually around drug trafficking or dealing. We don't really have generic gang bangers here as a concept. Gang members are aware gun usage will bring a lot of unwanted attention from the authorities and just getting caught with one means a mandatory five year stay at her Majesty's pleasure.
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#455 R011

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 1005 AM

We've attempted to have similar legislation here. Those charges are usually the first dropped when there are multiple charges and judges won't give sentences that steep for mere possession.

Apparently the preferred solution is to confiscate private property from law abiding citizens.
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#456 rmgill

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 1239 PM

We've attempted to have similar legislation here. Those charges are usually the first dropped when there are multiple charges and judges won't give sentences that steep for mere possession.

Apparently the preferred solution is to confiscate private property from law abiding citizens.


Same here south of the Tim Horton Line. You can look at the recent case of a career criminal in Philadelphia (or other examples) where the subject has many charges for firearms possession which were not followed up on. These should be handled federally because we have a federal law (congress HAS to do something!) But no, they can't charge and convict the guy and put him away for 5 or 10 years (possession, parole violation, etc). Somehow I'm responsible for this state of affairs by way of having firearms that haven't been fired in years  in my gun safe (let alone even being pointed at people).
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#457 EchoFiveMike

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 1607 PM

It's all who-whom.  

 

The carnage in Chicago is almost entirely from two demographics, with one being heavily dominant.  And the only non-recidivist offenders are sub-14 YO.  

 

Qui Bono?  Answer that, and you discover why things happen.  

 

The proper tools for taking back a society like we have occurring is not some service rifle or pistol, it's a suppressed single shot.  Those can be made on a bench lathe, using springs from all manner of other applications.  S/F....Ken M 


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#458 Chris Werb

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 0810 AM

 

We've attempted to have similar legislation here. Those charges are usually the first dropped when there are multiple charges and judges won't give sentences that steep for mere possession.

Apparently the preferred solution is to confiscate private property from law abiding citizens.


Same here south of the Tim Horton Line. You can look at the recent case of a career criminal in Philadelphia (or other examples) where the subject has many charges for firearms possession which were not followed up on. These should be handled federally because we have a federal law (congress HAS to do something!) But no, they can't charge and convict the guy and put him away for 5 or 10 years (possession, parole violation, etc). Somehow I'm responsible for this state of affairs by way of having firearms that haven't been fired in years  in my gun safe (let alone even being pointed at people).

 

 

Yes, there have been cases in the UK (I'd have to look them up) where I'm sure the "mandatory" five years wasn't applied for some dubious mitigating circumstance. I think it mostly is though.


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#459 Jeff

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Posted 28 August 2019 - 1614 PM

No guns but citizens coming to the assistance of an officer and no confusion about good and bad guys.

 

Good Samaritans help California cop subdue homeless suspect who tried to take deputy's weapon
Travis Fedschun By Travis Fedschun | Fox News

 

Three men are being hailed as heroes after they stepped up to help a California police officer who came under attack while trying to arrest a suspect during the weekend.

 

The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department said the incident happened Sunday in Whittier around 3 p.m., when the 23-year-old officer was responding to a call of a homeless man creating a disturbance at a convenience store.

 

In surveillance video, the deputy can be seen moving in to arrest the man, who is acting erratically, when he starts throwing punches and the deputy loses his balance, falling to the ground.

 

In the seconds that followed, the homeless man attempted to grab the deputy's gun from the holster.

 

The deputy yelled and that caught the attention of Brian Whitney, who told FOX 11 he reacted immediately.

 

"I heard the officer yell 'Get your hand off my gun,' and as soon as I seen that I went down and ripped the homeless guy's hands of the officer's gun," Whitney said Tuesday.

 

Two other men got involved, including one who could be seen sliding the officer's weapon away from the homeless attacker. The group was eventually able to subdue the suspect until additional officers arrived and arrested the man, who was charged with assault.

 

Whitney said the officer personally thanked him afterward for helping out.

 

"I told him I wasn't even thinking," he told FOX11. "The only thing I was thinking about was your safety."

 

Authorities praised the actions of the three men, saying their efforts helped save the life of the officer.

 

“He was having a hard time with that guy, and without the help of the good Samaritans, I’m concerned about that,” Capt. Jim Tatreau, of the LACSD told CBS LA. “We’ve had some very good citizens here in La Mirada, Whittier, and Norwalk. And it just reinforces your belief in being all together.”

 

https://www.foxnews....less-arrest-gun

 

 


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#460 Paul G.

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 0614 AM

When you regulate people rather than guns. Red Flags are going to be more common.

An ex-Marine said hed slaughter antifa. The FBI, using Oregons new red flag law, took his guns away https://t.co/AACZwuxmLKhttps://t.co/jQzr0dToOY

The task force also had the ex-Marine committed to a veterans hospital in Portland. He spent the next 20 days there.


Edited by Paul G., 31 August 2019 - 0617 AM.

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