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Little Flying Dragons Of China


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#21 Josh

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 0917 AM

Oh they definitely have a lot of stuff that would fit outside the plane, no doubt. Just the YJ-12 specifically is a very large weapon - you don't get super sonic and long range for free. And the other weapons they have for air launch don't fold up such that they could be fit in a bay (and I think that the YJ-8 series is still too large anyway). I assume they are developing a slimmed down weapon for internal carriage.
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#22 Luckyorwhat

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 1642 PM

Why not stealth the missile?


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#23 Garth

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 1849 PM

 
Also fun, and something Americans really don't talk about enough, how China hacked Lockheed Fucking Martin and stole ALL THE FUCKING BLUEPRINTS to build the F35.  Jason man, why not post pics of the J31 or whatever they calling it now. It's the F35 with twin engines. Lockheed admitted the hack. And China turned it into a flying product in very fast time ....


Actually the J31 is MUCH closer to the YF-22 than the F-35. The only part that seems to be lifted from the F-35 is the intake design.
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#24 Luckyorwhat

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 0701 AM

Interesting. So they have both designs, and know them well enough to combine features. Truly a masterpiece. They were so good at reverse engineering and the world just accepted it, then espionage provides drawings WITH all specs - gravy work. What an engineering foundation their school system has developed. These people are national resources.

 

Funny how Boeing can ground UK military craft, cut the UK off from support if they push this Northern Ireland/Bombardier C-series protest, since Boeing isn't releasing data on the planes they're selling. But the top secret Lockheed Martin Stealth fighters that have been 3 decades in development, costing more than the space program, that the mightiest country in the world will come to depend on as their big stick of international policy... 

 

Think about the policy implications - if you're American Diplomat you need to have confidence in your weapons, little wiggle worries like F35's going into 'safe mode' while flying and China demonstrating they know all about your planes - that's going to make you less belligerent than when you thought you were literally untouchable. What a move! They don't have to destroy a weapon system, if they compromise it so it is not used against them - they have succeeded just the same. And unlike various Soviet leaders being aware of their weakness but playing their cards well and bluffing, it's all out there. Did Kruschev have full confidence in his rocket forces? Seems not, but we didn't know. Does America have full confidence in their 'Day 1 Stealth Strike ability vs China? Seems not, and they know.

 

Just like Battlestar Galactica, it's going to be legacy aircraft still flying when China sends a command shutting down Lockheed planes. It's possible some of the airplane's computer code teething problems could have been due to malicious scripts and not incompetence.

 

Ppl hear NATO and think Air Power. Take that away, what's left? 'Advisors'?  China really found a way to make a strength into a weakness, God Fucking Damn em, what a move. It's not quite war, but Chinese strategy is always (try) to win the battle before the fighting ever begins, so the outcome is not in doubt. Know thy enemy - check. Russia must be soo relieved China's attention is focused in directions away from them, that'd be my main strategy - that and protect my jet engine designs.

 

 

Looking at Chinese cell phone tech - they use 900mhz. In Canada that band has been reallocated away from civilian. But it's useful for detecting stealth bombers, and if wikileaks is true the B2 is compromised as well. And the Chinese have displayed multi-spectral passive scanning vehicles, which notably use reflected cell phone waves as radar. You can't destroy all their emitters, they're distributed and dispersed.  US air power may not work against, or in proximity to China.


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#25 JasonJ

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 1047 AM

The FC-31 V2 is the second version of what was called the J-31.

 

The first image came out within last couple of months. The next two and video are a little older, maybe April 2017. There are other pictures which are late 2016 would be my guess.

F-31v2.jpg

 

FC-31%2B2.0o1.jpg

 

FC-31%2B2.0o2.jpg

 


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#26 nemo

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 2021 PM

 

 
Also fun, and something Americans really don't talk about enough, how China hacked Lockheed Fucking Martin and stole ALL THE FUCKING BLUEPRINTS to build the F35.  Jason man, why not post pics of the J31 or whatever they calling it now. It's the F35 with twin engines. Lockheed admitted the hack. And China turned it into a flying product in very fast time ....


Actually the J31 is MUCH closer to the YF-22 than the F-35. The only part that seems to be lifted from the F-35 is the intake design.

 

 

If anything, DSI intake is one part they do not need to lift, if they actually did any lifting.  Chinese had been tracking DSI development since the start -- they actually modified an J-7 with DSI to test the concept.  FC-1/JF-17, which uses DSI,  is developed after X-35, but is in service before F-35. J-20 uses DSI, so does J-10B/C.  All three implementation looks different in shaping and details.  If anything, the implementation of FC-1/J-17 is closest to F-35, event that is different in details.  J-7 tech demonstrator and FC-1/JF-17 actually predates so called hack, so I don't really see how you can call that a copy.


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#27 Luckyorwhat

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 1809 PM

Maybe, could be parallel development. It does kinda sound like China's really going hard on the espionage though, something to consider. https://wikileaks.or...ing-of-760.html

Or/also could be economic warfare. If the F35 doesn't sell enough, the price will be higher, and fewer will be built. Fewer American fighter planes is good for China. Instead of shooting them down in hot warfare later, they could be destroying hundreds or thousands by using espionage and market underpricing today. How to sell more? Make yours look the same, have comparable capabilities, and cost 30%. Hey, why not instill the fear that it's a compromised system, as well?

 

Genius. Genius. Genius.


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#28 Corinthian

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 1602 PM

The FC-31 V2 is the second version of what was called the J-31.
 
The first image came out within last couple of months. The next two and video are a little older, maybe April 2017. There are other pictures which are late 2016 would be my guess.
F-31v2.jpg
 
FC-31%2B2.0o1.jpg
 
FC-31%2B2.0o2.jpg
 


Laptol.
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#29 JasonJ

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 0517 AM

A Laptol, I mean, FC-31 (either first of second version) teaser gif.

openclose.gif


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#30 KV7

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 0616 AM

What if any bomber projects does China currently have running ? Something in Tu-22 weight class would make sense I think.


Edited by KV7, 18 October 2017 - 0617 AM.

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#31 JasonJ

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 0702 AM

What if any bomber projects does China currently have running ? Something in Tu-22 weight class would make sense I think.

 

There's the H-20 bomber program but no pictures from it yet.


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#32 Josh

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 0909 AM

They are still producing the H-6K as well.
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#33 Loopycrank

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 0914 AM

Why not stealth the missile?

 

Wouldn't work, or at least it wouldn't work as well as you'd want.  Total RCS is more than just the RCS of the clean airframe + the RCS of the missile.

 

Unless the aircraft was designed ahead of time with an appropriate recess to tuck the weapon into (like the AMRAAM slots on the underside of the Eurofighter Typhoon), or a big flat spot that the missile happened to snug up to, the missile would have to be on a long pylon.  For counter-intuitive reasons I won't get into, short weapons pylons actually create more drag than long ones, so this pylon is going to need to be sizable and have a fair amount of side area.

Well, that's not good, because pylons are usually vertical, and wings are usually horizontal, so that pylon and the wing are going to act like a corner retroreflector when viewed from the side.  This will increase side aspect RCS enormously.

 

OK, so the side-aspect RCS is totally screwed by external ordnance, but say we only care about the front.  It's still OK then, right?

Nope.

 

Radar waves tend to reflect off of interfaces where the conductivity changes suddenly.  So, obviously, the leading and trailing edges of the wings (and this is why designers are so anal about planform alignment), but also access panel lines, landing gear and weapon bay doors, et cetera.  There's a reason all those little panels and doors are sawtoothed and angled on stealth aircraft.  So, the interfaces between the stealth aircraft and the weapon pylon, and between the weapon pylon and the stealth weapon are going to act as radar reflectors unless they are treated and angled appropriately.

Finally, radar waves can do some funky stuff that could increase RCS in ways that are hard to predict without fancy software.  Incoming radar waves might have just the right resonant frequency to bend around a piece of ordnance and echo back to the emitter, or the tube between the aircraft and the ordnance might act as a wave guide and cause greater returns.

So, in general, external ordnance can be considered to de-stealth stealth aircraft even if the ordnance itself is stealthy.


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#34 JasonJ

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 0000 AM

Twin prop UAV unveiled last month.

Spoiler

http://uav.xinhuanet...c_129712584.htm

twin03.jpg

More pictures in the spoiler

Spoiler

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#35 JasonJ

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 1058 AM

fc-31v2.jpg


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#36 JasonJ

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 0902 AM

j-20x.jpg

 

j-20z.jpg


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#37 JasonJ

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 1131 AM

H-6Ks.

H-6Ks.jpg


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#38 Josh

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 0921 AM

Is there any source on how many H-6Ks are in service? Or H-6s in general for that matter. I was under the impression the oldest aircraft were being retired (most of them were not particularly capable, even the 'M' versions, compared to the 'K' with turbofans).
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#39 JasonJ

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 1117 AM

Don't know anything better than wiki as of now. It'll be something to look around for whenever I have time.


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#40 JasonJ

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 1205 PM

Here's an interesting site. It has pictures for each aircraft with a different number. For H-6K it counts to 61 that have a picture of it. If all those pictures are really of different H-6Ks and none being some older version, its more than I would have thought.

http://chinese-milit...ery-i.html#H-6K


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