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#21 Yama

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 0834 AM

Naval vessels are somewhat out of my lane, but if a ship has a persistent 1.3 degree list isn't that a significant issue?
 
 
https://navaltoday.c...builder-report/


Nimitz class carriers have similar permanent list, I don't know if it has been fixed in Ford. Of course ships do not sail with a list, it is fixed by counterweighting, they keep some of the damage control voids filled with water. Obviously this reduces reserve buoyancy of the hull.
As for the F125 as a warship...well, who am I to question the requirement of a colonial cruiser for a country which has no colonial empire??

Though, Germany is hardly alone. Quote: "Our current ships can operate in the Mediterranean, but not on Indian Ocean, so our new ships will be designed with that in mind." That quote came from FINNISH admiral. :wacko:

Though, it was pre-2014 and seems that since then, requirements have been tuned to slightly more sensible direction.


Edited by Yama, 23 March 2018 - 0834 AM.

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#22 Adam Peter

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 1204 PM

A German Warship Was Scorched By Its Own Missile

 

A German air defense frigate was damaged in a missile-firing incident off the Norwegian coast last week. A SM-2 missile somehow became trapped in its launcher, and the resulting rocket exhaust inflicted serious damage to the ship’s bow. Two German Navy sailors were injured in the incident.

On June 21st the FGS Sachsen, the first of four Type 124 air defense frigates in German Navy service, was attempting to launch a Standard SM-2 air defense missile. The missile rocket motor ignited but the missile failed to clear the Mk.41 vertical launch system silo. An explosion was followed by a short, intense fire as the rocket motor burned. A video of the incident (along with some well-earned swearing in German) was posted to Twitter.

 

It looks like SM-2 have it's own Russian S-x00 SAM moments, too:

 

 

In July 2015 a SM-2 missile exploded shortly after being launched by the guided missile destroyer USS The Sullivans. There were no injuries in the incident.


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#23 shep854

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 1656 PM

 

A German Warship Was Scorched By Its Own Missile

 

A German air defense frigate was damaged in a missile-firing incident off the Norwegian coast last week. A SM-2 missile somehow became trapped in its launcher, and the resulting rocket exhaust inflicted serious damage to the ship’s bow. Two German Navy sailors were injured in the incident.

On June 21st the FGS Sachsen, the first of four Type 124 air defense frigates in German Navy service, was attempting to launch a Standard SM-2 air defense missile. The missile rocket motor ignited but the missile failed to clear the Mk.41 vertical launch system silo. An explosion was followed by a short, intense fire as the rocket motor burned. A video of the incident (along with some well-earned swearing in German) was posted to Twitter.

 

It looks like SM-2 have it's own Russian S-x00 SAM moments, too:

 

 

In July 2015 a SM-2 missile exploded shortly after being launched by the guided missile destroyer USS The Sullivans. There were no injuries in the incident.

 

How old were the missiles?


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#24 Panzermann

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 0812 AM

The two oilers of the Deutsche Marine have been taken out of action, because Det Norske Veritas-Germanischer Lloyd (DNV GL) has revoked both ships classification for damage to their main engines. Both are 1970ies single-hull tankers so should have been replaced long ago, because they are a risk to spill oil at the slightest bumb and most nrabours do not allow them in anymore.

 

https://augengeradea...ne-ohne-tanker/

 

 

They have been kciking the can down the street for two decades now for such a simple project like buying an oiler. :angry:


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#25 R011

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 1145 AM

What about the three Berlin class AOR?
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#26 Panzermann

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 1359 PM

What about the three Berlin class AOR?

 

They sail, but to not tie them up supporting the NATO flottillas that are at high readiness, you need additional oilers, because normally when the fuel tank is at two-thirds they start calling for fuel to be always combat ready. If they really switch on their gas turbines they burn through their fuel within hours at high speed and thus are topped off regularly. Also oilers are simpler and thus cheaper than the full grown task force supply ships of the bErlin class. And why waste these for just topping off the oil bunkers?


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#27 seahawk

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 0850 AM

But that is a failure of the military leadership. Can you imagine any political party saying no to the need to replace single hull fuel tankers with much safer double hulls, especially when operating in the Wattenmeer?


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#28 Panzermann

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 0914 AM

But that is a failure of the military leadership. Can you imagine any political party saying no to the need to replace single hull fuel tankers with much safer double hulls, especially when operating in the Wattenmeer?

 

They have done exactly this.

 

 

In the procurement bureaucracy the new oilers have been procrastinated as low priority, because all the out-of-area expeditions had to be paid for. And the Greens obviously did not care. (despite the ovious environmental dangers of single hull)


Edited by Panzermann, 31 July 2018 - 1317 PM.

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#29 Panzermann

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 1322 PM

outside look at teutonic sea power:

Is Germany's Navy Dead?(National Interest)
 

 

Public perceptions notwithstanding, the mission of the Marine is to fill its NATO commitments.  Unfortunately, due to poor planning and decision-making, and lack of funding, it is incapable of fulfilling its primary mission requirements.  Unless changes are made promptly and quickly, its capabilities will degrade even further over the coming years.  While it is nice to blame “budget cuts,” the Marine’s problems go well beyond a lack of money.  The German Navy has major problems with all its major components; submarines, surface ships, and what’s left of its naval air capability.

 

(This first appeared in Feb. 2018 in RealClearDefense here.)

(...)

 

the two tankers currently grounded (how do you say in the navies, when a ship is no longer allowed to sail?), are not mentioned. Though that is a rather recent development.


Edited by Panzermann, 31 July 2018 - 1414 PM.

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#30 DB

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 0402 AM

Beached or laid up, perhaps, although the former is usually for crew and the latter implies being in a reserve fleet.
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#31 Panzermann

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 0521 AM

Beached or laid up, perhaps, although the former is usually for crew and the latter implies being in a reserve fleet.

 

The tankers are out of action, because they have damaged engines.

 

So, really dunno.


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#32 lastdingo

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 0554 AM

I adopted the term "colonial cruiser" myself in regard to F125, but maybe "colonial gunship" is even more appropriate, considering that cruisers at least had a respected armament most of the time (except pre-WWI small cruisers, which typically had a few 4" guns). The K130 series are overweight coastal corvettes.


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#33 Panzermann

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 0605 AM

I adopted the term "colonial cruiser" myself in regard to F125, but maybe "colonial gunship" is even more appropriate, considering that cruisers at least had a respected armament most of the time (except pre-WWI small cruisers, which typically had a few 4" guns). The K130 series are overweight coastal corvettes.

 

yup certainly underarmed for the size. There are now deck mountable VLS cells, but that is not so desireable of course, because the expensive missiles are easier to damage by waves. and those silly small hangars that no german navy helicopter fits in to. :wacko:

 

The F125 are also a weird hybrid with the four RHIBs for deploying a handful of soldiers to the beach or for inspecting ships.

 

 

 

in other news RUMINT has it that the BPol See (federal german police seagoing section) is going to arm their patrol boats again. Instead with the old trusty 40 mm Bofors, they look at the modern 57mm Bofors Mark 3 gun. which the german navy does not use. So they go for training to Sweden? :huh:


Edited by Panzermann, 01 August 2018 - 0612 AM.

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#34 shep854

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 0810 AM

 

Beached or laid up, perhaps, although the former is usually for crew and the latter implies being in a reserve fleet.

 

The tankers are out of action, because they have damaged engines.

 

So, really dunno.

 

'Laid up' does sound most appropriate.


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#35 DB

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 1801 PM

"Broken" fits best, by the sound of it.

 

Are the BPol See going to be patrolling the Rhine looking for rogue tsunami that might cause your nuclear reactors to explode?

 

Seriously, though, is the Baltic so dangerous they need big (ger) guns?


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#36 BansheeOne

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Posted 02 August 2018 - 0342 AM

They also deploy to the Mediterranean as part of FRONTEX, and back when the anti-piracy mission off Somalia was debated, legal sticklers pointed out that under domestic German regulations, this was really the province of Federal Police which didn't however have sufficiently capable ships, while the Navy had those but no law enforcement rights. The latter has since come to be seen pragmatically, but the three new Potsdam-class BPol high sea cutters of 86 meters (previous classes were 66 meters at 880 ts standard and 14 crew), derived from Fassmer's OPV 80 design, with a helicopter deck for Super Puma and tropical capabilities, have been expressively stated to de deployable to almost any European seas. First is to be commissioned in December.

 

wasserpolizei-15.jpg

 

Never heard about them getting artillery though, and if they were I would expect something in the 30-35 mm range, unless this is some political deal under the German-Swedish defense cooperation. I'm sceptical, but wouldn't rule it out entirely - some rumors like the old Federal Border Guard getting blue uniforms and being renamed Federal Police in the first place turned out to be true, after all.


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#37 Panzermann

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Posted 02 August 2018 - 0618 AM

The discussion that Bundeswehr has no law enforcement was meaningless, because the mission off the somali coast is in international waters and Germany is isgnatory to the UN anti piracy convention from 1968 (or thereabouts). In which all signatories agreed on fighting piracy wherever they meet it on the high seas inlcuding the use of proper navies.  But very typical of german underinformed politcs. :glare:

 

 

 

 

Never heard about them getting artillery though, and if they were I would expect something in the 30-35 mm range, unless this is some political deal under the German-Swedish defense cooperation. I'm sceptical, but wouldn't rule it out entirely - some rumors like the old Federal Border Guard getting blue uniforms and being renamed Federal Police in the first place turned out to be true, after all.

 

The old BGS boats had the additional role of auxuliary war ships for the cold war gone hot, hence the armamanet with the 40 mm and space to mount additional weapons. The boats still have the mountings and unused space. The 57 mm Mark3 is small enough that it would probably fit in the same space, but why introduce a handful of systems?

 

 

The most sensible choice IMHO are the MLG27, because the navy already uses those and has everything for traning and mainteneance in place. The next bigger gun to use would be the 3" OTO Melara, but well, that is a bit much. Not that I would mind shooting pirates with these. ^_^


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