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Meanwhile In The Baltic Republics And Poland...


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#21 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 0547 AM

So, who uses M270 as Bde asset?

British Army for one. They broke up the MLRS Regiment and parcelled it out among AS90 regiments that offered fire support to mech Brigades. In fairness, the Army also reformed those gun regiments into a new Artillery Brigade at Tidworth, but chances are it will still deploy in support of Mech brigades when it comes to it, so they should at least have a battery in support of each Bde.

 

I know, its pretty fucked up reasoning, but such is British military thought these days.

 

Russiandefence.net posted this the other day, I have to admit ive rarely seen footage of Tos1 firing before.


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#22 BansheeOne

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 0619 AM

German artillery battalions are also integrated, two/three batteries of PzH 2000 and one of MLRS. Three out of the whooping total of four are division assets, but in principle meant to be assigned to deployed brigades; the French-German Brigade has its own artillery battalion of the same type already.


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#23 Damian

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 0821 AM

In Poland 155mm artillery and 122mm MLRS systems are for brigades support mainly. Battalions have 120mm mortars support mainly and still 122mm artillery but probably not for long.

 

A 227mm MLRS would be brigade and above level. While ATACMS type missiles for them will be for strategic level.


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#24 Simon Tan

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 0835 AM

Germany has four artillery battalions? That's sad.


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#25 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 0841 AM

Germany without artillery is like America without Big Macs.


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#26 Talyn

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 1030 AM

Better not do anything since the German foreign minister says NATO is warmongering.


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#27 JasonJ

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 1050 AM

Better not do anything since the German foreign minister says NATO is warmongering.

 

In fairness to the minister, I'll pass a post of fairness :)

 

http://www.tank-net....84#entry1249240


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#28 rohala

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 1402 PM

Battalions have 120mm mortars support mainly and still 122mm artillery but probably not for long.

You mean that infantry battalions have organic 122mm artillery?
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#29 Damian

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 1423 PM

 

Battalions have 120mm mortars support mainly and still 122mm artillery but probably not for long.

You mean that infantry battalions have organic 122mm artillery?

 

 

Nah, it's mechanized/armor using AHS 2S1 Gvozdika, it's their last years of service before being replaced by 155mm AHS Krab. Motorized will get 155mm AHS Kryl as a replacement for 152mm AHS Dana.

 

Tough structure will be changed.

 

Armor/mechanized will get:

 

Battalions - 120mm SMG Rak-G.

Brigades 155mm AHS Krab.

 

Motorized will get:

Battalions - 120mm SMK Rak-K.

Brigades - 155mm AHS Kryl.

 

122mm AHS 2S1 Gvozdika and 152mm AHS Dana will be moved to reserve and perhaps moved to Territorial Defense Forces.


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#30 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 0208 AM

Hang on, just want to be sure I get this right. The mech and armour battalions are getting Su122 attached to the battlegroup? Kind of like paving the way for SP mortars?

 

Thats interesting, Id not heard that before. Would that be a battery of 6?


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#31 Ken Estes

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 0225 AM

Maybe there now are only four German arty battalions in all, as they are down to three divisions, one of which includes the Schools/Demo Bde [PzLehrbrigade] and all are a bit mixed in structure. They have come a long ways....


Edited by Ken Estes, 23 June 2016 - 0236 AM.

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#32 Damian

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 0505 AM

Hang on, just want to be sure I get this right. The mech and armour battalions are getting Su122 attached to the battlegroup? Kind of like paving the way for SP mortars?

 

Thats interesting, Id not heard that before. Would that be a battery of 6?

 

Well 122mm is used right as both battalion or brigade level support, however the calliber shows it's age and it just don't fit.

 

For a brigade level 155mm is better suited while 120mm autoloaded mortars are better suited for battalion level.

 

152mm Dana's are also used for armor/mechanized support tough, they kinda do not fit due to their wheeled chassis.

 

It's kinda complicated right now, but in future structure will be simplified thanks to new platforms.


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#33 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 0530 AM

Maybe there now are only four German arty battalions in all, as they are down to three divisions, one of which includes the Schools/Demo Bde [PzLehrbrigade] and all are a bit mixed in structure. They have come a long ways....

 

With Pz2000 perhaps they dont feel the need for quite so many guns. I mean if they are going to be putting 10 rounds a minute downrange, that is a considerable advance on their cold war era M109s. Even the Russians are noting that a single 2s35 (which is reputed to put 13 rounds a minute down range) is worth a whole artillery battery.

 

 

Hang on, just want to be sure I get this right. The mech and armour battalions are getting Su122 attached to the battlegroup? Kind of like paving the way for SP mortars?

 

Thats interesting, Id not heard that before. Would that be a battery of 6?

 

Well 122mm is used right as both battalion or brigade level support, however the calliber shows it's age and it just don't fit.

 

For a brigade level 155mm is better suited while 120mm autoloaded mortars are better suited for battalion level.

 

152mm Dana's are also used for armor/mechanized support tough, they kinda do not fit due to their wheeled chassis.

 

It's kinda complicated right now, but in future structure will be simplified thanks to new platforms.

 

Ok thanks for that Damian. Just when I think ive got the Polish orbat worked out, you fellas change it. :D


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#34 Damian

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 0557 AM

I will just give you example Stuart.

 

The 10th Armored Cavalry Brigade have an artillery support of 122mm 2S1 Gvozdika squadron, same thing in 34th Armored Cavalry Brigade, however 17th Mechanized Brigade (in reality Motorized as they do not have tanks, only Rosomak wheeled combat vehicles) have support of 152mm Dana squadron. And all 3 brigades belong to the same 11th Armored Cavalry Division.

 

In future 10th and 34th ACB's will get both 120mm SMG Rak-G and 155mm AHS Krab, while 17th MB will get 120mm SMK Rak-K and 155mm AHS Kryl.

 

*Artillery Squadron in Poland is equivalent of a Battalion. Each artillery squadron should have 24 self propelled howitzers.


Edited by Damian, 23 June 2016 - 0602 AM.

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#35 Panzermann

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 0626 AM


Maybe there now are only four German arty battalions in all, as they are down to three divisions, one of which includes the Schools/Demo Bde [PzLehrbrigade] and all are a bit mixed in structure. They have come a long ways....

 
With Pz2000 perhaps they dont feel the need for quite so many guns. I mean if they are going to be putting 10 rounds a minute downrange, that is a considerable advance on their cold war era M109s. Even the Russians are noting that a single 2s35 (which is reputed to put 13 rounds a minute down range) is worth a whole artillery battery.
 

 


Hang on, just want to be sure I get this right. The mech and armour battalions are getting Su122 attached to the battlegroup? Kind of like paving the way for SP mortars?
 
Thats interesting, Id not heard that before. Would that be a battery of 6?

 
Well 122mm is used right as both battalion or brigade level support, however the calliber shows it's age and it just don't fit.
 
For a brigade level 155mm is better suited while 120mm autoloaded mortars are better suited for battalion level.
 
152mm Dana's are also used for armor/mechanized support tough, they kinda do not fit due to their wheeled chassis.
 
It's kinda complicated right now, but in future structure will be simplified thanks to new platforms.
 
Ok thanks for that Damian. Just when I think ive got the Polish orbat worked out, you fellas change it. :D

Soviet doctrine and equipment clashing with NATO doctrine and equipment basically. And modern 120 mm mortars are reaching into 122 mm howirzer territory anyway with their increased range.
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#36 Simon Tan

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 0836 AM

The 2S1 is a rather good little SPG, especially if it is recapitalized.


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#37 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 0837 AM

Ukrainians seem to have got a lot of mileage out of theirs in 2014 as Jagdpanzers. The Armour was shit, but 122mm seemed to be good to go for T64 plinking, at least according to the Karber report.

 

I like them, its a pity they cant be retained for expeditionary work.


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#38 urbanoid

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 0841 AM

With new equipment entering service, we may have an offer for you. :P


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#39 Simon Tan

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 0845 AM

I'd induct them into my PMC.


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#40 urbanoid

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 0856 AM

And we probably would into the territorial defense.


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