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alt-hist c&rsenal pre-WW1

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#601 Panzermann

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 0348 AM

M1912/30 refurbishments of these bolt actions. (primary change is detachable box magazine)

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why bother modifyinging the magazines? stripper clip is fine. And as these rifles are gooing to gn crews, rear echelon etc etc. why spend the money?  The self loading rifles are expensive.


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#602 Markus Becker

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 0917 AM

The gunners and REMFs carry the M1922 and /21 respectively. The former will probably get M1935.

The M1912 is not likely to be replaced quickly by the M1930. I'd favour conversion to the 1912/30 to go hand in hand with with the new LMG. Infrantry equipped with the new LMG should have either the M1930 or the M1912/30, so both can use the others magazine if necessary.

On the matter of the LMG. What is it going to be? Imported ZB, license built ZB or simplified ZB?
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#603 Markus Becker

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 0942 AM

In other news:

The adoption of an M1930 indicates it's 1930 or it's about to be 1930 ... The stock market in the USA has just crashed very badly. The Dow Jones has lost a third of its value. This could just be a culling of overpriced stock but it could signal a recession. Steel and automobile production has been down since August.
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#604 JWB

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 1146 AM

https://www.forgotte...Sjogren1908.PDF


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#605 Simon Tan

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Posted 03 August 2019 - 1431 PM

Imported ZB to begin with while we focus on cranking out M1930 and M1912/30. The Great Depression will kill off our USian exports so we will convert all that to domestic demand. China remains a decent if declining market as the age of Warlords comes to a close as the Kuomintang gain ground.
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#606 Markus Becker

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Posted 03 August 2019 - 1510 PM

"The Great Depression will kill off our USian exports..."

The fun that is going to be, especially considering the recent acquisition of Auto Ordnance. You will be kept informed. :(

That 'still a recession' could have implications for the ZB imports if it lasts. We have to pay with something.
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#607 Simon Tan

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 0344 AM

Machine carbines. The Czechs dont have any.
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#608 Markus Becker

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 1645 PM

Almost everybody hasn't any. So far there is very little interest in them. We, the Chinese and the US Marines are the exceptions. Light machine guns and semi automatic rifles are what's desired.

We'll try anyway but we bring our heavy mortars along.
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#609 Simon Tan

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 2029 PM

Historically they would not get any till the KP vz38 but then again they never had Tankovia. We can chamber them in .380 ACP for the Czechs.


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#610 Markus Becker

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 2041 PM

There is a war or two that could get nations more interested in SMG -especially with a good one available- but they haven't broken out yet.
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#611 Simon Tan

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 2156 PM

It is pitched at police and gendarmes. Compact, light and affordable. Easier to use than a pistol, better range and a lot less unwieldy than a rifle caliber carbine. Especially handy from a motor car. Our demo team of 'gendarmes' travels around the region to showcase the machine carbines firing from an automobile. 

 

We actually then get the customer to shoot at corrugated cardboard targets from the moving vehicle with either their handguns or carbines. We then give them a quick instruction and have them repeat the course of fire with the machine carbines. 


Edited by Simon Tan, 05 August 2019 - 2208 PM.

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#612 Markus Becker

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 0927 AM

We have been trying to sell the M1920 series to police forces for almost ten years. They do well in trials but most of the time that does not translate into sales. Spain is the exception, France is the rule. Too many carbines are left over from the war, so sales are in the low hundreds.

 

 

The situation in the USA has improved much but the outlook is very bad.

 

Our sales are up across the board. The recession has finally gotten Americans interested in less expensive firearms but ours will not be inexpensive for much longer if the proposed tariffs on industrial goods become law. We’ll stock up while we can. Another piece of seemingly good news is coming from the USMC. They have trialed our M1935 and decided to adopt it. The catch is in the purchase. They want to return their M1925s and Thompsons to us.


Edited by Markus Becker, 06 August 2019 - 0942 AM.

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#613 Panzermann

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 1820 PM

The catch is in the purchase. They want to return their M1925s and Thompsons to us.

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Tankovia is not a used car dealership.

 

 

Maybe we can find a buyer for lightly used SMGs in Latin Aemrica?


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#614 R011

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 2018 PM

Only if they can't buy new ones. We don't want to sell old at the expence of new. Call me an optimist, but we should be due for a major war or two soon. China and Japan seem to be unhappy with each other, for instance. This may create enough demand for both new and old inventory.
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#615 Markus Becker

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 0745 AM

I don't see a market for used M1925. The M1935 is not just better -especially in full auto- but also easier to manufacture than the M1925. We'd have to offer them at a huge discout but that way they'd compete with the M1935 on a market that's not that big. We could convert them into M1922 and sell them to individuals. But that depends on the pricing and the demand. With the Marines adopting the M1935 US citizens might prefer that one too. OTOH, with the tariffs used M1925 already in the US could be cheaper than M1935. We'll see once we know what the USMC is willing to pay. 

 

And that just 250 machine carbines. God knows how to get rif of more than 12,000 Thompsons without loosing money.  :(


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#616 Markus Becker

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Posted 17 August 2019 - 1503 PM

News from the USA:

 

We could get a fair number of M1920/22 pistols(Hammer) and M1912 straight pull rifles into the country before the tariffs went into force by taking them out of army inventory.

 

The USMC bought 300 M1935 and Cutt’s compensators for their M1925. They plan to surplus their Thompsons and we can’t keep them off the general market, because the overall situation has much deteriorated. The banks are falling like Tommies in Flander’s Fields and the surviving ones call in loans early. This and the tariffs have been too much to pull through. We had to sell 40% of Auto Ordanace and to Savage Arms to avoid bankruptcy, including certain rights to Locomotive’s designs.

 

The Germans have been hit hard too by the global recession and cut back cooperation with us. Fortunately the X1930 machine gun has been completed. It’s the infantry variant of the MG 13 aircraft machine gun. Unlike the MG 13 F(lieger) the MG 13 I(nfantrie) feeds from a belt, fires from and open bolt and has a quick change barrel. It could be useful. On a bipod it is a medium machine gun like the American M1919 – just much better – and on a tripod it’s a rifle caliber heavy machine gun. Again better than our old 08’s.


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#617 Simon Tan

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 0959 AM

1930 Pattern Infantry Section

 

Section Leader - M19XX machine carbine, M1922 pistol

 

MG Team

LMG Gunner - M1930 (ZB vz.30) LMG or Lewis MG, M1922 pistol. 

Assistant Gunner - M1912/30 rifle. LMG magazines.*

Sharpshooter - M1912/30 sharpshooter rifle**

 

2 x Rifle Teams

2 x Riflemen - M1930 SL rifle.**

Grenadier - M19XX machine carbine, M1917 Grenade Discharger ***

 

* 8 x 20-round magazines for ZB vz.30 / 4 x 47-round drum for Lewis. Separately has 3 x 10-round magazine for rifle.

** 10-round magazines with 1 LMG magazine.

*** Peabody-Martini conversion with shortened barrel and cup launcher. Stock reinforced for grenade launching with special blank cartridges. Vivens-Bessieres style grenade.


Edited by Simon Tan, 19 August 2019 - 0422 AM.

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#618 Markus Becker

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 1434 PM

M1935 Machine Carbine. I presume we are talking LMG interchangeable 10 round rifle mags. Give the assistant gunner an M1922 and more standard capacity LMG mags. If someone gets close enough to the LMG for the assistance gunner to use an M1912/30 it's probably too late anyway.

I don't get the grenadier and the M1917(???). Fit the M1930 for rifle grenades?
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