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Health Quackery Roundup


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#381 Harold Jones

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 1423 PM

The smokes are why they can't afford the meds. It doesn't help that quitting smoking is HARD, I quit 25 years ago and still dream about the fucking things. I had a friend who used to say that smoking was a way of life not a habit.


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#382 Skywalkre

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 1844 PM

 

 

 

That article is frustrating on a couple levels.

 

For starters, as he points out, there is some good in what these folks are trying to push ("focus on eliminating health disparities and ensuring that the next generation of physicians is well-equipped to deal with cultural diversity").  Unfortunately what good there is is being drowned out in a lot of stupid.

 

Second, there is a good argument to be made that our medical system needs an overhaul.  It's just not what the folks the author is warning against are out to accomplish.  Take this paragraph from the article:

 

 

The traditional American model of medical training, which has been emulated around the world, emphasizes a scientific approach to treatment and subjects students to rigorous classroom instruction. Students didn’t encounter patients until they had some fundamental knowledge of disease processes and knew how to interpret symptoms. They were expected to appreciate medical advances and be able to incorporate them into their eventual fields of practice. Medical education was demanding and occasionally led to student failure, but it produced a technically proficient and responsible physician corps for the U.S.

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with what he's writing there.  Unfortunately that scientific approach to treatment, fundamental knowledge of disease processes, and the ability to interpret symptoms comes behind a methodology that focuses on so many conditions/diseases being treatable by a pill or procedure and completely ignore prevention or treatment through simply taking care of oneself (a figure I remember from a book a few years ago said something like the average MD in the US gets less than 6h of nutritional instruction... :huh:).

 

The article is about medical school education. The gist of the article is that what is today described at "social justice" is infecting the medical education. The article is correct.

However, lets dissect your post:

" ("focus on eliminating health disparities and ensuring that the next generation of physicians is well-equipped to deal with cultural diversity").  Unfortunately what good there is is being drowned out in a lot of stupid.

Agree with your last sentence. Stupid is the political bs striving to infect medical knowledge. People are alot more alike on the inside than the outside, hence the emphasis on medical science. To your first sentence, what exactly are "health disparities?" The common knowledge of the detrimental  effects of tobacco, obesity, drug use, etc?  The lesser known, but very obvious example of negative mental health issues? These issues that are largely avoidable by personal choices and to be honest, personal responsibility.

"... focuses on so many conditions/diseases being treatable by a pill or procedure and completely ignore prevention or treatment through simply taking care of oneself." 

This would pertain to the personal choice made by the patient manifesting itself to the point that the "pill or procedure" is needed.  Obviously some aspects of health care is not attributable to personal choices, hence the scientific knowledge and skills that are needed to become a doctor.

 

Per the first point - the CDC website states disparities are "preventable differences in the burden of disease, injury, violence, or opportunities to achieve optimal health that are experienced by socially disadvantaged populations."  Social mobility has been on the decline in this country for decades.  Sure a lot of folks at the bottom make poor life choices but a lot of those choices (such as smoking) are their way of coping with the stresses of being at the bottom (and given the situation many of those people find themselves in, it's actually remarkable what they do with what they have).  That doesn't get them off the hook, but it's not just these groups making poor choices.  Go to the checkout at one of these big box stores in a wealthy part of town - lots of carts pushed by overweight folks filled to the brim with sweets and alcohol.  That's their coping mechanism.  Both groups end up eventually shifting part of the costs of dealing with those bad choices onto the taxpayer via Medicare and Medicaid.  I'm all for all of these groups being held accountable for the poor choices they make.  We don't do that.

 

Per your second point - my issue is that if you spend all these years training a doc and they can't tell you what the hell you should be eating or how you should be living so that you don't have to see them in the first place, all that scientific training was only half complete.  My argument is a pill or procedure shouldn't be the answer when the problem was caused by poor choice (or rather, it shouldn't be the answer if it's being paid for by someone other than the person going after it... if they have the money to cover it themselves, then let them have at it).  Heaven forbid folks have to give up something bad for them or put in a little work to get better.

 

Personal anecdote along these lines.  I suffered a back injury at my job years ago.  Went to an amazing physical therapist who turned me around in a couple months.  I've been seeing her privately since to get updates on how I can keep strengthening and protecting myself so the same thing doesn't happen again (insurance doesn't cover this... shock, surprise).  She said I was by far one of her favorite patients ever.  Why?  I actually did what she told me to do.  I saw this firsthand a few months ago on one of my visits when an older gentleman was there seeing another therapist and kept telling her "yeah, no... I don't want to do that... that's too much work."  (This is in a really nice part of town - Scottsdale/Paradise Valley area for those who know the Valley.)


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#383 Rick

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 1930 PM

 

 

 

 

That article is frustrating on a couple levels.

 

For starters, as he points out, there is some good in what these folks are trying to push ("focus on eliminating health disparities and ensuring that the next generation of physicians is well-equipped to deal with cultural diversity").  Unfortunately what good there is is being drowned out in a lot of stupid.

 

Second, there is a good argument to be made that our medical system needs an overhaul.  It's just not what the folks the author is warning against are out to accomplish.  Take this paragraph from the article:

 

 

The traditional American model of medical training, which has been emulated around the world, emphasizes a scientific approach to treatment and subjects students to rigorous classroom instruction. Students didn’t encounter patients until they had some fundamental knowledge of disease processes and knew how to interpret symptoms. They were expected to appreciate medical advances and be able to incorporate them into their eventual fields of practice. Medical education was demanding and occasionally led to student failure, but it produced a technically proficient and responsible physician corps for the U.S.

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with what he's writing there.  Unfortunately that scientific approach to treatment, fundamental knowledge of disease processes, and the ability to interpret symptoms comes behind a methodology that focuses on so many conditions/diseases being treatable by a pill or procedure and completely ignore prevention or treatment through simply taking care of oneself (a figure I remember from a book a few years ago said something like the average MD in the US gets less than 6h of nutritional instruction... :huh:).

 

The article is about medical school education. The gist of the article is that what is today described at "social justice" is infecting the medical education. The article is correct.

However, lets dissect your post:

" ("focus on eliminating health disparities and ensuring that the next generation of physicians is well-equipped to deal with cultural diversity").  Unfortunately what good there is is being drowned out in a lot of stupid.

Agree with your last sentence. Stupid is the political bs striving to infect medical knowledge. People are alot more alike on the inside than the outside, hence the emphasis on medical science. To your first sentence, what exactly are "health disparities?" The common knowledge of the detrimental  effects of tobacco, obesity, drug use, etc?  The lesser known, but very obvious example of negative mental health issues? These issues that are largely avoidable by personal choices and to be honest, personal responsibility.

"... focuses on so many conditions/diseases being treatable by a pill or procedure and completely ignore prevention or treatment through simply taking care of oneself." 

This would pertain to the personal choice made by the patient manifesting itself to the point that the "pill or procedure" is needed.  Obviously some aspects of health care is not attributable to personal choices, hence the scientific knowledge and skills that are needed to become a doctor.

 

Per the first point - the CDC website states disparities are "preventable differences in the burden of disease, injury, violence, or opportunities to achieve optimal health that are experienced by socially disadvantaged populations."  Social mobility has been on the decline in this country for decades.  Sure a lot of folks at the bottom make poor life choices but a lot of those choices (such as smoking) are their way of coping with the stresses of being at the bottom (and given the situation many of those people find themselves in, it's actually remarkable what they do with what they have).  That doesn't get them off the hook, but it's not just these groups making poor choices.  Go to the checkout at one of these big box stores in a wealthy part of town - lots of carts pushed by overweight folks filled to the brim with sweets and alcohol.  That's their coping mechanism.  Both groups end up eventually shifting part of the costs of dealing with those bad choices onto the taxpayer via Medicare and Medicaid.  I'm all for all of these groups being held accountable for the poor choices they make.  We don't do that.

 

Per your second point - my issue is that if you spend all these years training a doc and they can't tell you what the hell you should be eating or how you should be living so that you don't have to see them in the first place, all that scientific training was only half complete.  My argument is a pill or procedure shouldn't be the answer when the problem was caused by poor choice (or rather, it shouldn't be the answer if it's being paid for by someone other than the person going after it... if they have the money to cover it themselves, then let them have at it).  Heaven forbid folks have to give up something bad for them or put in a little work to get better.

 

Personal anecdote along these lines.  I suffered a back injury at my job years ago.  Went to an amazing physical therapist who turned me around in a couple months.  I've been seeing her privately since to get updates on how I can keep strengthening and protecting myself so the same thing doesn't happen again (insurance doesn't cover this... shock, surprise).  She said I was by far one of her favorite patients ever.  Why?  I actually did what she told me to do.  I saw this firsthand a few months ago on one of my visits when an older gentleman was there seeing another therapist and kept telling her "yeah, no... I don't want to do that... that's too much work."  (This is in a really nice part of town - Scottsdale/Paradise Valley area for those who know the Valley.)

 

Cannot disagree with what you have said.


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#384 Ivanhoe

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 1937 PM

Personal anecdote along these lines.  I suffered a back injury at my job years ago.  Went to an amazing physical therapist who turned me around in a couple months.  I've been seeing her privately since to get updates on how I can keep strengthening and protecting myself so the same thing doesn't happen again (insurance doesn't cover this... shock, surprise).  She said I was by far one of her favorite patients ever.  Why?  I actually did what she told me to do.  I saw this firsthand a few months ago on one of my visits when an older gentleman was there seeing another therapist and kept telling her "yeah, no... I don't want to do that... that's too much work."  (This is in a really nice part of town - Scottsdale/Paradise Valley area for those who know the Valley.)

The flip side, from what I have read, is that elite athletes sometimes fail the rehab because if 15 minutes in the pool loosening up a shoulder is good, then 3 hours is better. If the PT isn't aware of this, outcomes no bueno.

 


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#385 sunday

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 1551 PM

The smokes are why they can't afford the meds. It doesn't help that quitting smoking is HARD, I quit 25 years ago and still dream about the fucking things. I had a friend who used to say that smoking was a way of life not a habit.

 

Vaping is very, very useful for quitting smoking.


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#386 Tim the Tank Nut

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 1600 PM

there has been some talk about vaping devices becoming explosive but I can't recall specifics


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#387 Mr King

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 1623 PM

there has been some talk about vaping devices becoming explosive but I can't recall specifics

 

Their batteries. Same thing can happen to all products that use those kind of batteries. Laptops and cellphones are another common source for these issues with batteries. 

 

 


Edited by Mr King, 16 September 2019 - 1624 PM.

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#388 sunday

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 1632 PM

there has been some talk about vaping devices becoming explosive but I can't recall specifics

 

Yes, basically the unregulated, no-electronics onboard ones.

 

I know of electricity, and only use regulated, heavily protected ones. Also have quite the respect for Lithium batteries.


Edited by sunday, 16 September 2019 - 1632 PM.

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#389 Stargrunt6

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 1835 PM

I took my cellphone out its case for the first time in a while. it feels uncomfortably hot
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#390 rmgill

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 1909 PM

My uncle's iPhone started to have problems and he found that the switches on the side were being forced out of the case. HE took it to be fixed and it was clear from the reports of the folks at the best buy that the phone's battery was swollen. 

With increased energy density comes costs and volatility. 

Makita has a set of controllers in their batteries that safes the batteries from charging if they detect them going out of spec for temperature or what not. It's very conservative meaning it will brick the battery if it goes out of a narrow spec. But I guess Makita did this to keep from burning people's homes down.  


Edited by rmgill, 16 September 2019 - 1912 PM.

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#391 JWB

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 1001 AM

Targeting certain rogue T cells prevents and reverses multiple sclerosis in mice.

https://www.scienced...91004105623.htm


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#392 Stargrunt6

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 2224 PM

Targeting certain rogue T cells prevents and reverses multiple sclerosis in mice.

https://www.scienced...91004105623.htm

 

 

And who knows what else this could open doors to.  As with all the autoimmune diseases, the only tool we have for MS is a sledgehammer. 


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#393 JWB

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 1112 AM

Changing Your Diet Can Help Tamp Down Depression, Boost Mood

 

There's fresh evidence that eating a healthy diet, one that includes plenty of fruits and vegetables and limits highly processed foods, can help reduce symptoms of depression.

Wot?! Eating healthy is good for the mind?? Who woulda thunkit.

https://www.npr.org/...WtKgqr3gaJa1ixA


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#394 Skywalkre

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 1222 PM

Changing Your Diet Can Help Tamp Down Depression, Boost Mood

 

There's fresh evidence that eating a healthy diet, one that includes plenty of fruits and vegetables and limits highly processed foods, can help reduce symptoms of depression.

Wot?! Eating healthy is good for the mind?? Who woulda thunkit.

https://www.npr.org/...WtKgqr3gaJa1ixA

 

And yet most Americans still won't try it.  They'll still go to their doc to pop a pill instead and the doc will be happy to oblige.

 

Sad and crazy the world we live in where the above is legit news...


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#395 Rick

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 0239 AM

Old news.

Daniel 1: 12-16

12 Daniel said to the guard, "Please give us this test for ten days: Don't give us anything but vegetables to eat and water to drink. 13 After ten days compare how we look with how the other young men look who eat the king's food. See for yourself and then decide how you want to treat us, your servants." 14 So the guard agreed to test them for ten days. 15 After ten days they looked healthier and better fed than all the young men who ate the king's food.16 So the guard took away the king's special food and wine, feeding them vegetables instead.


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#396 bojan

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 0608 AM

So go Vegan!

Just kidding :)


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#397 Panzermann

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 0649 AM

 

Changing Your Diet Can Help Tamp Down Depression, Boost Mood

 

There's fresh evidence that eating a healthy diet, one that includes plenty of fruits and vegetables and limits highly processed foods, can help reduce symptoms of depression.

Wot?! Eating healthy is good for the mind?? Who woulda thunkit.

https://www.npr.org/...WtKgqr3gaJa1ixA

 

And yet most Americans still won't try it.  They'll still go to their doc to pop a pill instead and the doc will be happy to oblige.

 

Sad and crazy the world we live in where the above is legit news...

 

 

It was a controlled study, so it put some scientific evidence to what is "commonly known".


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#398 Skywalkre

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 1532 PM

 

 

Changing Your Diet Can Help Tamp Down Depression, Boost Mood

 

There's fresh evidence that eating a healthy diet, one that includes plenty of fruits and vegetables and limits highly processed foods, can help reduce symptoms of depression.

Wot?! Eating healthy is good for the mind?? Who woulda thunkit.

https://www.npr.org/...WtKgqr3gaJa1ixA

 

And yet most Americans still won't try it.  They'll still go to their doc to pop a pill instead and the doc will be happy to oblige.

 

Sad and crazy the world we live in where the above is legit news...

 

 

It was a controlled study, so it put some scientific evidence to what is "commonly known".

 

 

There have been plenty of scientific studies before this one showing the benefits.  Again, nothing new.  I've been reading about some of these links/benefits for decades at this point (ugh, I'm starting to feel old...).  About the only nifty thing in this study was the following bit:

 

 

One of the shortcomings of nutrition science is that it often relies on asking people to recall what they ate in the past. Given our flawed memories, these measures can be unreliable. But this study included a clever way to validate how many fruits and vegetables people consumed. Using a device called a spectrophotometer, the participants had their palms scanned. The device can detect the degree of yellowness in your skin, which correlates with your intake of carotenoids, which you get from eating fruits and vegetables.

 

The main issue is a cultural one - Americans tend to look for easy answers (which at best might address some symptoms and rarely cure anything) and the medical field is more than happy to give them that.  It doesn't help that for most of my life federal nutritional guidance was hijacked by special interests and docs got basically no nutritional instruction.  The end of the linked article touches on that last bit at the end how this integrative approach to medicine is still something a doc studies on the side if interested.  It should be part and parcel of their core instruction.


Edited by Skywalkre, 11 October 2019 - 1556 PM.

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#399 Rick

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 0402 AM

 

 

 

Changing Your Diet Can Help Tamp Down Depression, Boost Mood

 

There's fresh evidence that eating a healthy diet, one that includes plenty of fruits and vegetables and limits highly processed foods, can help reduce symptoms of depression.

Wot?! Eating healthy is good for the mind?? Who woulda thunkit.

https://www.npr.org/...WtKgqr3gaJa1ixA

 

And yet most Americans still won't try it.  They'll still go to their doc to pop a pill instead and the doc will be happy to oblige.

 

Sad and crazy the world we live in where the above is legit news...

 

 

It was a controlled study, so it put some scientific evidence to what is "commonly known".

 

 

There have been plenty of scientific studies before this one showing the benefits.  Again, nothing new.  I've been reading about some of these links/benefits for decades at this point (ugh, I'm starting to feel old...).  About the only nifty thing in this study was the following bit:

 

 

One of the shortcomings of nutrition science is that it often relies on asking people to recall what they ate in the past. Given our flawed memories, these measures can be unreliable. But this study included a clever way to validate how many fruits and vegetables people consumed. Using a device called a spectrophotometer, the participants had their palms scanned. The device can detect the degree of yellowness in your skin, which correlates with your intake of carotenoids, which you get from eating fruits and vegetables.

 

The main issue is a cultural one - Americans tend to look for easy answers (which at best might address some symptoms and rarely cure anything) and the medical field is more than happy to give them that.  It doesn't help that for most of my life federal nutritional guidance was hijacked by special interests and docs got basically no nutritional instruction.  The end of the linked article touches on that last bit at the end how this integrative approach to medicine is still something a doc studies on the side if interested.  It should be part and parcel of their core instruction.

 

I don't disagree with you on the dietary culture of most of the U.S. However I do not believe there needs to be the quantity of nutritional education you are espousing for the primary care MD, the MD most people will see more frequently in their lifetime. The reason is, is that good nutritional information is out there and widely available. It doesn't take a medical doctorate to understand nutrition/obesity and much more importantly, for the American public to actually freekin do it!

One way to change this apathetic behavior is to increase Medicare premiums for the obese (and tobacco users while where at it.) 


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#400 MiloMorai

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 0443 AM

Back in the in day in primary school we had nutrition classes (the basics of a good diet).


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