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G36 - Too Broken To Fix?


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#521 Panzermann

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 0551 AM

A safety lever is more simple to the gun designer, but I was thinking KISS for the logistics soldier who's super-stressed in an ambush.

Would be too bad if he musters the courage to expose himself for saimed shots after 10 seconds and then can't shoot because the lever is still on safe.

 

Soldiers are drilled to swipe the safety switch before firing. I certainly never missed doing it Although not a trained infantryman.


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#522 Panzermann

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 1632 PM

2017-10-11_G95-HK16A7.jpg

 

HK416 A7 is the new Gewehr, Spezialkräfte G95

 

among the differences to the HK416 A5 aka G38 is the different colour, the short-throw safety lever (not the markings), the trigger mechanics are encased in a cassette instead of directly mounted to the receiver and a few other changes. Planned to buy 1.705 examples for KSK and KSM.

 

Do not ask me how they came up with that number I have no clue. There is already the G38 in use with federal and memberstate LEOs and there was the project called G26 to buy a compact rifle for MP and KSK.

 

http://strategie-tec...n-das-neue.html


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#523 Panzermann

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 0917 AM

 

 

german and austrian accents explaining the RS556 rifle in one video. :D


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#524 Panzermann

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 1833 PM

When your G36 are melting:

 

 

Go back to old relible. :D

 

 

 

(i think we have had that video before)


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#525 Loopycrank

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 2309 PM

 

They didn't mention closed bolt operation, but I suppose we can be sure about it?

 

 

 

 

... I can think of only two assault rifles that were open bolt, and only one of those was even quasi mass-produced.  Of course it's closed bolt.

 

 

A safety lever is more simple to the gun designer, but I was thinking KISS for the logistics soldier who's super-stressed in an ambush.

Would be too bad if he musters the courage to expose himself for saimed shots after 10 seconds and then can't shoot because the lever is still on safe.

 

Why do you think it takes ten seconds to aim a rifle shot, and how long do you think it takes to sweep the safety off even if the soldier realizes that he's derped up and somehow forgotten to take it off safe?

Alternative safety systems have been tried for assault rifles, namely double-action triggers like in handguns.  Beretta considered the concept early in the development of the ARX-160 and dropped it quickly.  They're a bad idea.

Handguns live in holsters, and a holster that's designed by anyone who doesn't have a hole in their head will completely enclose and protect the trigger.  The danger of negligent discharge of the weapon comes from the user accidentally fingering the trigger when they didn't intend to, which does occasionally happen.

Rifles don't live in holsters.  Rifles live on slings most of the time, and held in the soldier's hands at a low ready much of the time.  Branches, bits of clothing, and other environmental hazards will conspire to snag the trigger, so just a grip safety isn't adequate at all.  It's not an issue of designer convenience; grip safeties are extremely simple and no more complex than a manual safety.  The issue is that the rifle absolutely needs some means of positively locking the trigger out because that trigger is exposed.

 


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#526 Chris Werb

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 0701 AM

It's a shame Eugene Stoner isn't alive now to see his designs taking over in countries that had their own thriving and famous gun designers/producers until not so long ago.


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#527 Panzermann

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 1259 PM

To get back to the selection and procurement process of the G36 successor:

 

 

SIG-Sauer withdraws from the competition, becaue the BAAINBw requires that any technology submitted not be under export control restrictions. which means ITAR killed it for SIG-Sauer, because the MCX series has been designed mostly in the USA.  BMVg does not comment on the press statements of private enterprises.

 

https://mobile.trade...fahren-zurueck/

http://augengeradeau...ngebot-zurueck/

 

 

RUMINT has it that the MCX has problems with the presentation of projectiles ("Geschoßvorlagefähigkeit"), too, which is also a core demand by BAAINBw for the new rifle. So ITAR may be a cheap excuse.

 

So that basically leaves the Rheinmetall-Steyr RS556, HK416 and HK433 in the race. If others have submitted their bids like FN or Beretta or CZ UB or FB Radom is unknown so far. Well maybe they just did not bother. It looks very much like a slam dunk for the HK433, because RS556 and HK416 are both heavier than the target weight requirement.

 

 

 

Ironic that ITAR is supposed to be a stopper, when at the same time the Luftwaffe looks at the F-35. Is there anything on that plane or the support infrastructure arund it that is not ITAR controlled?


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#528 2805662

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 1347 PM

I guess its a matter of if you can avoid it (ITAR), why not? The replacement for the CH-53 (either CH-53K or CH-47F) is also almost 100% ITAR - but Germany/EU does not have an indigenous heavy lift helicopter production capability, so it doesnt have a choice.

Could you elaborate on the MCX rumours?
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#529 Dawes

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 1356 PM

Not sure how ITAR applies to aircraft since the F-35 (and F-16, F-15, F/A-18, C-130, P-3, P-8, etc.) have been exported all over the world.


Edited by Dawes, 24 November 2017 - 1356 PM.

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#530 2805662

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 1429 PM

ITAR is just a system of export controls - which almost every country has. Identify the item to be exported, identify the end user, apply for an export licence to the relevant authority, licence approved, sell product. The biggest difference being that ITAR has a catchy/ominous/jargonistic title, which means people can comment while sounding like an insider. :D

As a non-USian, I negotiate ITAR/EAR fairly regularly. Without mentioning specific countries, I have a lot less issues with working through a specific, largely transparent (to the entities involved), well understood process, than one whereby knowing someone in the Ministry of Defence can accelerate things or change the process.

Edited by 2805662, 24 November 2017 - 1431 PM.

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#531 Panzermann

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 1436 PM

I guess its a matter of if you can avoid it (ITAR), why not? The replacement for the CH-53 (either CH-53K or CH-47F) is also almost 100% ITAR - but Germany/EU does not have an indigenous heavy lift helicopter production capability, so it doesnt have a choice.


There used to be a plan for a european HTH. Of course to be built by Airbus Helicopters. Well with the usual euro delays and te actual pressing need to replace the old G Stallions, Airbus is out. Well they could always buy Mi-26. ;) But yeah, there is not really a big mselection on the market for big helicopters.

and as I said, ITAR sound to me like a cheap excuse.

Could you elaborate on the MCX rumours?


in the comments a commenter says that the sales guy at the SIG-Sauer stand at the Day of the Infantry said to him that the MCX has a problem with the "Geschoßvorlagefähigkeit" (which I am not really sure what it is exactly and how that translates into english). It seems to have to do something with barrel steels and production methods as the sales guy is also said to have said that only a russian firm and H&K and its french steel supplier get this right. Yes hearsay, but I am looking into it.



I am now wildly guessing here, but it might have to do with the transition area between chamber and barrel and its interaction with the german issue ammunition. Especially the double core projectiles seem to have special interour ballistics.

H&K having always access to current issue and test samples, because they manufacture and service current issue weapons. The other contenders do not which has been cited as another disadvantage by SIG-Sauer, because they were not able to test properly. Although in the original tender the BAAAINBw stated that it offers standard issue ammunition at cost.

Conside

ring that the MCX has been a banana product like so many other from SIG-SauerUSA, they may have just looked for an excuse to withdraw. *shrug* we will see when more info trickels out.
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#532 Panzermann

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 1446 PM

I guess its a matter of if you can avoid it (ITAR), why not? The replacement for the CH-53 (either CH-53K or CH-47F) is also almost 100% ITAR - but Germany/EU does not have an indigenous heavy lift helicopter production capability, so it doesnt have a choice.


There used to be a plan for a european HTH. Of course to be built by Airbus Helicopters. Well with the usual euro delays and te actual pressing need to replace the old G Stallions, Airbus is out. Well they could always buy Mi-26. ;) But yeah, there is not really a big mselection on the market for big helicopters.

and as I said, ITAR sound to me like a cheap excuse.

Could you elaborate on the MCX rumours?


in the comments a commenter says that the sales guy at the SIG-Sauer stand at the Day of the Infantry said to him that the MCX has a problem with the "Geschoßvorlagefähigkeit" (which I am not really sure what it is exactly and how that translates into english). It seems to have to do something with barrel steels and production methods as the sales guy is also said to have said that only a russian firm and H&K and its french steel supplier get this right. Yes hearsay, but I am looking into it.



I am now wildly guessing here, but it might have to do with the transition area between chamber and barrel and its interaction with the german issue ammunition. Especially the double core projectiles seem to have special interiour ballistics.

H&K having always access to current issue and test samples, because they manufacture and service current issue weapons. The other contenders do not which has been cited as another disadvantage by SIG-Sauer, because they were not able to test properly. Although in the original tender the BAAAINBw stated that it offers standard issue ammunition at cost.



Conside

ring that the MCX has been a banana product like so many other from SIG-SauerUSA, they may have just looked for an excuse to withdraw. *shrug* we will see when more info trickels out.
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#533 BansheeOne

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 1523 PM

Geschossvorlage is a projectile from a weak round getting stuck in the barrel. The required capability is not blowing up the barrel with the following round(s). HK is damn proud that the MG 5 can do this.

 


Edited by BansheeOne, 24 November 2017 - 1525 PM.

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#534 Panzermann

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 1531 PM

I guess its a matter of if you can avoid it (ITAR), why not? The replacement for the CH-53 (either CH-53K or CH-47F) is also almost 100% ITAR - but Germany/EU does not have an indigenous heavy lift helicopter production capability, so it doesnt have a choice.


There used to be a plan for a european HTH. Of course to be built by Airbus Helicopters. Well with the usual euro delays and te actual pressing need to replace the old G Stallions, Airbus is out. Well they could always buy Mi-26. ;) But yeah, there is not really a big mselection on the market for big helicopters.

and as I said, ITAR sound to me like a cheap excuse.
 

Could you elaborate on the MCX rumours?


in the comments a commenter says that the sales guy at the SIG-Sauer stand at the Day of the Infantry said to him that the MCX has a problem with the "Geschoßvorlagefähigkeit" (which I am not really sure what it is exactly and how that translates into english). It seems to have to do something with barrel steels and production methods as the sales guy is also said to have said that only a russian firm and H&K and its french steel supplier get this right. Yes hearsay, but I am looking into it.



I am now wildly guessing here, but it might have to do with the transition area between chamber and barrel and its interaction with the german issue ammunition. Especially the double core projectiles seem to have special interiour ballistics.

 

edit: see BansheeOne's post

H&K having always access to current issue and test samples, because they manufacture and service current issue weapons. The other contenders do not which has been cited as another disadvantage by SIG-Sauer, because they were not able to test properly. Although in the original tender the BAAAINBw offered standard issue ammunition at cost.



Conside

ring that the MCX has been a banana product like so many other from SIG-SauerUSA, they may have just looked for an excuse to withdraw. *shrug* we will see when more info trickels out.


Edited by Panzermann, 24 November 2017 - 1535 PM.

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#535 Panzermann

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 1533 PM

Geschossvorlage is a projectile from a weak round getting stuck in the barrel. The required capability is not blowing up the barrel with the following round(s). HK is damn proud that the MG 5 can do this.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyUtUwmjlJ4

 

 

aaah. that explains, why it is so hard to accomplish. thank you. :)

 

 

But then, how often does that happen?  :huh:


Edited by Panzermann, 24 November 2017 - 1534 PM.

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#536 Simon Tan

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 0331 AM

Bore obstruction from a squib load.
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#537 seahawk

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 0530 AM

It is a clear technical parameter though and it would be very hard to attack the tender based on this.


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#538 Panzermann

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 1204 PM

It is a clear technical parameter though and it would be very hard to attack the tender based on this.

 

Exactly.  Makes me think that SIG-Sauer just wanted to withdraw and wanted to create a bit of a smoke screen. and maybe impress the minister of defense who happily jumps to conclusions regarding firearms.

 

 

But the question stands, how often does it happen? It was actually never mentioned when I was trained on the MG3, that a bullet could get stuck in the barrel. Torn cases stuck in the chamber, yes, but stuck bullets were never explicitly mentioned.  And I have witnessed a few torn cases over the many rounds we fired through our coax machine guns.


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#539 Panzermann

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 1303 PM

The Police Sevices of Berlin and Sleswick-Holsatia both ordered several hundred SIG-Sauer MCX Mitteldistanzwaffen (medium distance weapons). Unimpeded by ITAR considerations.

 

Berlin buys 300 MDW(fern =far) for the police reserve; 115 MDW(fern) and 45 MDW(nah = near) for the SEK special squirrels.

 

Schleswig-Holstein buys 522 MDW(fern) as patrol rifles.

 

In Berin H&K did not run and SIGSauer GmbH sits in Eckernförde(S-H).

 

 

http://strategie-tec...g-holstein.html

http://www.sigsauer-le.com/


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#540 Panzermann

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 0350 AM

20171220_Gabriel_MeS_Ehrenhain.jpg

 /

acting Minister of the Foreign Gabriel on his recent visit to MeS at the Ehrenhain (w(o trees) memorial wall.

 

 

 

note the painted G36. ^_^


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