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New French Army Rifle - Hk416?


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#1 Gregory

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 0033 AM

Word on the street says so.
http://www.thefirear...le-competition/

#2 shep854

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 0818 AM

I just saw that.  Can we say the AR has become the Mauser of the 21st Century?



#3 Chris Werb

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 0928 AM

It would be interesting to see a comparison between countries that adopted Mauser designs and ones that adopted the AR. My guess is it would be pretty close.



#4 bojan

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 1136 AM

I just saw that.  Can we say the AR has become the Mauser of the 21st Century?

It ain't really pure AR-15 - it uses AR-18 short stroke gas piston.



#5 Panzermann

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 1136 AM

I just saw that.  Can we say the AR has become the Mauser of the 21st Century?


No we cannot. Only a few years ago the Автомат Калашникова has overtaken the production number of Mauser rifles.




Furthermore the HK416 is a hybrid of an AR-15 lower receiver and a G36 derived operating system upper receiver and some newly designed parts to accomodate the system.



From all I hear the 416 is a reliable rifle, but that quad rail forearm makes it bloody heavy. And AR-15 derivitaves are not known to take launching rifle grenades well. Which the french like to do from their FAMAS rifles. Though I do not know if they want to continue the practice with the introduction of Fly-K mortars.

#6 Gregory

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 1136 AM

It would be interesting to see a comparison between countries that adopted Mauser designs and ones that adopted the AR. My guess is it would be pretty close.


I don't think so. Here is the list from Wiki:

M1902, M1912, M1924 & M1936 Mexican in 7×57mm
M1903 Turkish in 7x57mm
M1904 & M1912 Chilean in 7×57mm
M1912 Colombian in 7×57mm
M1904 Portuguese in 6.5×58mm Vergueiro
M1906 Swedish in 6.5×55mm
M1908 Brazilian in 7x57mm
M1909 Argentine in 7.65×53mm
M1910 Serbian in 7×57mm
M1924 Chinese in 7.92×57mm
M1943 Spanish short (not to be confused with the M93 Spanish Mauser) in 7.92×57mm manufactured in the Spanish arsenals. Will have "La Coruna" or the Spanish Air Force Eagle stamped on the top of the receiver. Virtually identical to the K98k.
vz. 98/22 Often made from G98 parts, rebuilt in the BRNO factory in Czechoslovakia.

A few of these countries use ARs nowadays, but hardly most.

#7 bojan

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 1137 AM

 

From all I hear the 416 is a reliable rifle, but that quad rail forearm makes it bloody heavy. And AR-15 derivitaves are not known to take launching rifle grenades well. Which the french like to do from their FAMAS rifles. Though I do not know if they want to continue the practice with the introduction of Fly-K mortars.

 

Fly-K suplements, not replaces RGs.



#8 Panzermann

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 1137 AM

It would be interesting to see a comparison between countries that adopted Mauser designs and ones that adopted the AR. My guess is it would be pretty close.


A century ago everyone that did not make its own designs adopted a Mauser basically.

And I bet more countries adopted the AK in one form or another than an AR-15.

#9 Mike Steele

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 1159 AM

 

I just saw that.  Can we say the AR has become the Mauser of the 21st Century?

It ain't really pure AR-15 - it uses AR-18 short stroke gas piston.

 

So does my Sig Sauer AR. :)



#10 Chris Werb

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 1308 PM

There are a lot of countries out there that never adopted a Mauser that use ARs to on extent or another in their militaries. Many of these countries dd not exist when the Mauser was in its heyday, but I have taken into account their geographical predecessor in arriving at the list. For example no countries within former Ottoman empire.

 

Canada (did not use P1914/M1917 in any numbers)

Denmark

Norway (unless you count Kar 98k post war)

France

Netherlands

Malaysia

Singapore

Barbados

Iraq

Afghanistan

Jamaica

Gabon

Ghana

South Korea

Malaysia

Brunei

Bangladesh

Nigeria

Pakistan

Uganda

Belize

Hungary

Mongolia

Nepal

Suriname

Phillipines (unless they got M1903 post WW2)

Tonga

Yemen

Georgia



#11 Panzermann

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 1331 PM


 


I just saw that.  Can we say the AR has become the Mauser of the 21st Century?

It ain't really pure AR-15 - it uses AR-18 short stroke gas piston.
 
So does my Sig Sauer AR. :)

But it does it noticeably different. Saying it is AR-18 system is like saying all four cylinder, four stroke gasoline engines are same. Which they are not. ;)

#12 Colin

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 1413 PM

 

I just saw that.  Can we say the AR has become the Mauser of the 21st Century?


No we cannot. Only a few years ago the Автомат Калашникова has overtaken the production number of Mauser rifles.




Furthermore the HK416 is a hybrid of an AR-15 lower receiver and a G36 derived operating system upper receiver and some newly designed parts to accomodate the system.



From all I hear the 416 is a reliable rifle, but that quad rail forearm makes it bloody heavy. And AR-15 derivitaves are not known to take launching rifle grenades well. Which the french like to do from their FAMAS rifles. Though I do not know if they want to continue the practice with the introduction of Fly-K mortars.

 

Since the French use the bullet trap system is there any real change in felt recoil or to the recoil pulse?



#13 shep854

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 1419 PM

 

I just saw that.  Can we say the AR has become the Mauser of the 21st Century?


No we cannot. Only a few years ago the Автомат Калашникова has overtaken the production number of Mauser rifles.




Furthermore the HK416 is a hybrid of an AR-15 lower receiver and a G36 derived operating system upper receiver and some newly designed parts to accomodate the system.



From all I hear the 416 is a reliable rifle, but that quad rail forearm makes it bloody heavy. And AR-15 derivitaves are not known to take launching rifle grenades well. Which the french like to do from their FAMAS rifles. Though I do not know if they want to continue the practice with the introduction of Fly-K mortars.

 

That's why I stopped at 'AR'.  As for AK, they could loosely be called the Mosin-Nagants of the 21st Century



#14 Corinthian

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 1515 PM

Phillipines (unless they got M1903 post WW2)


According to wiki, retained for ceremonial use. Wooden facsimiles/dummies used for ROTC.

https://en.m.wikiped...lippine_service

Supposedly retired by the time the VN War happened.

http://armasdefilipi...-rifle.html?m=1

FWIW

Edited by Corinthian, 31 August 2016 - 1516 PM.


#15 Laser Shark

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 1524 PM

If France has selected the 416, and the Germans are still serious about replacing the G36, then it's likely that the 416 will end up as the future service rifle of the Bundeswehr as well. ARs everywhere, indeed.



#16 Panzermann

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 0547 AM

If France has selected the 416, and the Germans are still serious about replacing the G36, then it's likely that the 416 will end up as the future service rifle of the Bundeswehr as well. ARs everywhere, indeed.


I do not think so. German MoD is definitely willing to finance a completely new rifle to subsidize H&K and give them a new product for the next decades.

#17 Laser Shark

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 0730 AM

I do not think so. German MoD is definitely willing to finance a completely new rifle to subsidize H&K and give them a new product for the next decades.

 

 

IIRC someone from your MoD also said that they should buy whatever rifle the French chose.



#18 BansheeOne

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 0808 AM

I have brought that up as making sense, and written it into various texts for my boss pointing to efforts for more interoperability in the French-German Brigade etc., but not heard it from any MoD figure. In fact I thought various publications about the issue hinted at a preference for the SIG MCX, possibly based upon it not being from HK after the bad blood created by the G36 pseudo-affair; but I would hope the eventual decision will be made at least mostly based upon performance meeting requirements. I'm pretty certain the MoD won't pay HK to design an all-new rifle at any rate.



#19 Simon Tan

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 0820 AM

Meh.... I wouldn't buy anything from "SIG-Sauer".



#20 Laser Shark

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 0902 AM

I have brought that up as making sense, and written it into various texts for my boss pointing to efforts for more interoperability in the French-German Brigade etc., but not heard it from any MoD figure. In fact I thought various publications about the issue hinted at a preference for the SIG MCX, possibly based upon it not being from HK after the bad blood created by the G36 pseudo-affair; but I would hope the eventual decision will be made at least mostly based upon performance meeting requirements. I'm pretty certain the MoD won't pay HK to design an all-new rifle at any rate.

 

It took some time to figure out where I got this notion, but I believe it's this article, which someone posted on another forum I frequent. That said, the spokesperson from the German MoD, who is mentioned in the article, didn't outright state that they should buy the French rifle. Only that they were interested in the process, so that was a mistake on my part. However, as this spokesperson isn't mentioned by name, one should probably take even that with a grain of salt.


Edited by Laser Shark, 01 September 2016 - 0903 AM.





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