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Himars For Romania


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#1 Dawes

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 1548 PM

That doesn't look like a whole lot of rockets for 54 launchers, if I'm reading it right?:

 

http://www.dsca.mil/...nia_17-36_0.pdf



#2 Olof Larsson

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 1635 PM

That doesn't look like a whole lot of rockets for 54 launchers, if I'm reading it right?:

 

http://www.dsca.mil/...nia_17-36_0.pdf

 

Well. France did initially only buy a whooping 21 GMLRS-pods.



#3 Chris Werb

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 0746 AM

 

That doesn't look like a whole lot of rockets for 54 launchers, if I'm reading it right?:

 

http://www.dsca.mil/...nia_17-36_0.pdf

 

Well. France did initially only buy a whooping 21 GMLRS-pods.

 

 

I think they now have a whopping 13 M270s left in service :(

 

What intrigues me is how they (the Romanians) intend to acquire targets to take advantage of the GMLRS' range and near precision.



#4 Dawes

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 0809 AM

They also requested ATACMS, which is much longer ranged.



#5 Chris Werb

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 1037 AM

They can hit part of Crimea from their own soil with ATACAMS. I'm guessing they will be among the first customers for the 500km follow on to ATACMS when it is available. That will make things a lot more interesting. I just hope they keep the HIMARS and associated systems and munitions dispersed in hardened/protected facilities and not one, unguarded, shed next to a main road on the border with Moldova...



#6 lastdingo

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 1320 PM

Think again; their budget is tiny.

 

They will buy LRPF only if they get it through military aid. Besides, Crimea can be hit by cruise missiles launched from the Mediterranean Sea already.



#7 Chris Werb

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 1323 PM

How many land-attack cruise missile equipped vessels does Romania currently have in the Mediterranean?

 

54 is a lot of launcher vehicles. It's more than the UK and France combined currently deploy, albeit with half the capacity per vehicle.



#8 shep854

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 1339 PM

One good salvo...

#9 lastdingo

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 1424 PM

How many land-attack cruise missile equipped vessels does Romania currently have in the Mediterranean?

 

Doesn't matter. Romania is a member of both NATO and EU, it can count on allies.

Most of them.



#10 Dark_Falcon

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 1700 PM

 

How many land-attack cruise missile equipped vessels does Romania currently have in the Mediterranean?

 

Doesn't matter. Romania is a member of both NATO and EU, it can count on allies.

Most of them.

 

 

Still, the added firepower is a good thing to have.  Rocket artillery is point on which Russia has some advantages, especially in numbers, so additional HIMARS units will help redress the balance.



#11 FALightFighter

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 1755 PM

According to wiki, Romania has 5 rocket battalions: 1 in each division, and 3 in an army-level artillery brigade. Also according to wiki, they have 135 APRA-40 (BM-21 copies) as well as 54 LAROM MRLs, which are upgraded APRA-40s.

 

Seems likely that they'll replace ~1/2 of the APRA-40s, or maybe all of them, with HIMARS. Or this could be an expansion- adding a battalion or two, maybe even 3- depending on how you organize your battalions and how many you keep for training and spares.



#12 Panzermann

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 0625 AM

According to wiki, Romania has 5 rocket battalions: 1 in each division, and 3 in an army-level artillery brigade. Also according to wiki, they have 135 APRA-40 (BM-21 copies) as well as 54 LAROM MRLs, which are upgraded APRA-40s.

 

Seems likely that they'll replace ~1/2 of the APRA-40s, or maybe all of them, with HIMARS. Or this could be an expansion- adding a battalion or two, maybe even 3- depending on how you organize your battalions and how many you keep for training and spares.

 

BM-21 Grad is a very different system to MARS. grad rockets reach about 20 km and new model rockets about 40. MARS rockets fly up to 300 kilometres. Very different level of employment.

 

I think the Brigada 8 LAROM "Alexandru Ioan Cuza" is going to reequip one of its Grad (APRA-40) regiments and use it for army level strikes. Making it a rocket artillery brigade of one LAROM regiment, one HiMARS regiment and one APRA. Or getting rid of APRA in the brigade altogether.

 

Makes me wonder if they do intend to keep 160 mm LAROM actually in service. Which would reshuffle things of course. hmm.

 

 

 


 

What intrigues me is how they (the Romanians) intend to acquire targets to take advantage of the GMLRS' range and near precision.

 

 

Satellite? NATO partner's reconaissance flights? Or just a map and target e.g. Sevastopol's harbour?



#13 lastdingo

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 1039 AM

GUMLRS is the rocket with the range of 80...100 km, ATACMS and the LRPF project are about hundreds of km.

 

GUMLRS can be user to kill a bunch of suppressed warband fighters in Afghanistan, to take out a single building - or in conventional warfare it could hit HQ or radar vehicles spotted by various means (the most affordable being long range scouts with HF or satellite radio), but GPS jamming would be an issue, so against Russians you better only expect INS accuracy which is about 0.6 mil maximum dispersion in all directions for functioning missiles IIRC.



#14 Chris Werb

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 1538 PM

 

How many land-attack cruise missile equipped vessels does Romania currently have in the Mediterranean?

 

Doesn't matter. Romania is a member of both NATO and EU, it can count on allies.

Most of them.

 

 

Having your own, survivable, near precision, missile capability means you are less reliant on allies and adds an independent capability that complicates a potential attacker's calculus. 



#15 lastdingo

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 0104 AM

The threat posed by GUMLRS is not very different from the threat of allied strike fighters with IIR pods. I doubt an aggressor's behaviour would change much.



#16 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 0236 AM

How viable would S400 be at engaging ATACM's or even MLRS derivatives? I would guess MLRS would separate not long after reaching the apex, making it a bit moot?



#17 lastdingo

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 0256 AM

MLRS? That's the launcher.

 

ATACMS - it's so short range (= not terribly fast; Mach 3) that it's probably not much more difficult to hit than a MiG-25, and I never read anything about any evasive manoeuvres capability (this would require extra structural strength and is thus unlikely).

 

LRPF - quite the same.

 

BMD becomes really tricky against missiles/rockets of more than 1,000 km range and against those with much terminal manoeuvrability (Iskander presumably).

 

That MLRS-launched SDB II would be an even easier target.



#18 bojan

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 0648 AM

According to wiki, Romania has 5 rocket battalions: 1 in each division, and 3 in an army-level artillery brigade. Also according to wiki, they have 135 APRA-40 (BM-21 copies) as well as 54 LAROM MRLs, which are upgraded APRA-40s.

 

Seems likely that they'll replace ~1/2 of the APRA-40s, or maybe all of them, with HIMARS. Or this could be an expansion- adding a battalion or two, maybe even 3- depending on how you organize your battalions and how many you keep for training and spares.

They are moving 122mm mm to a brigade level (where it should be), HIMARS will be army level.


Edited by bojan, 22 August 2017 - 0648 AM.


#19 GARGEAN

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 0958 AM

How viable would S400 be at engaging ATACM's or even MLRS derivatives? I would guess MLRS would separate not long after reaching the apex, making it a bit moot?

S-400 is wholly unsuitable for that. ATACMS and different MLRS rounds(not MLRS itself) would be intercepted my Tor and Pansir-S. S-300, S-400 and Buk family can relatively easy intercept ATACMS, but that's not too close to their initial role(S-300V and S-400 have ABM capability from beginning, but that's more add-on than real reason d'etre as for PAC-3).

#20 GARGEAN

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 1000 AM

That MLRS-launched SDB II would be an even easier target.

I wouldn't be so sure. Lesser speeds are negated by pretty low RCS and big numbers of simultaneous targets, thus full interception would be likely only for systems with good anti-PGM capabilities.




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