Jump to content


Photo

Mars/cobalt Kinetics Rifle Design


  • Please log in to reply
40 replies to this topic

#21 Panzermann

Panzermann

    REFORGER '79

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,648 posts

Posted 07 September 2019 - 0811 AM

The new 6,8 mm is more like the Creedmoor cartridges. It just happens to have the same caliber as the older SPC II, but has much case capacity and more powder 

 

 

The US Army has decided on a new cartridge:

 

 

SEPTEMBER 06, 2019
U.S. Army selection for NGSW

U.S. ARMY SELECTS TRUE VELOCITY COMPOSITE-CASED AMMUNITION FOR NEXT GENERATION SQUAD WEAPON PROGRAM

GARLAND, TX – True Velocity composite-cased ammunition has been selected for the U.S. Army’s Next Generation Squad Weapon (NGSW) modernization program. True Velocity’s 6.8mm composite-cased cartridge was submitted as part of an overall NGSW weapon system in partnership with General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems and firearm manufacturer Beretta Defense Technologies.

True Velocity’s proprietary 6.8mm case design will provide end users with significant logistical and operational advantages over traditional brass-cased ammunition, including substantially increased effective range and muzzle energy, drastic reduction in cartridge weight and enhanced accuracy. The combination of True Velocity’s ammunition with the General Dynamics OTS weapon submission results in a state-of-the-art weapon system capable of long-range lethality, short recoil impulse, significant ballistic improvements and enhanced operational effectiveness for the soldier.

“True Velocity’s 6.8mm composite case design produces a level of performance, consistency and efficiency never before seen in small arms ammunition,” said Chris Tedford, president and chief operating officer for True Velocity. “Combining True Velocity’s innovation and technology with the expertise of General Dynamics OTS and Beretta results in a weapon system solution that exceeds NGSW requirements and provides the U.S. Army with a definitive edge on the field of battle.”

nothing.jpgnothing.jpgtrue-velocity-68mmweb.jpg

​

 

About a 1/3 lighter than 556 brass cased. Remains to be seen if the program actually results in aynthing fielded...

 


  • 0

#22 JW Collins

JW Collins

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,327 posts

Posted 07 September 2019 - 1252 PM

Textron got a contract a few days ago for ammunition and rifles so I don't think the selection process is done yet.
  • 0

#23 GregShaw

GregShaw

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,152 posts

Posted 07 September 2019 - 1338 PM

Yawn, how many different new cartridges have they "adopted" in the last 20 yrs?
 


  • 0

#24 BJE

BJE

    Member

  • TestGroup
  • PipPip
  • 342 posts

Posted 07 September 2019 - 1345 PM

Textron got a contract a few days ago for ammunition and rifles so I don't think the selection process is done yet.

Yup. True Velocity, as a partner to General Dynamics, has been selected to the next phase in NGSW. https://www.thefirea...ased-ammo-ngsw/


  • 0

#25 Panzermann

Panzermann

    REFORGER '79

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,648 posts

Posted 09 September 2019 - 1524 PM

Actually all three teams are still in running and the press release by Truevelocity is misleading. 

 

http://soldiersystem...eapon/#comments

 

SIG USA and its ammo is in

Winchester/Olin wich AAI and H&K

and 

True Velocity plus GD and Beretta


  • 0

#26 Panzermann

Panzermann

    REFORGER '79

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,648 posts

Posted 09 September 2019 - 1542 PM

https://ndiastorage....mament/Rice.pdf

 

a few interesting slides from this year's ndia conference about various small arms projects


  • 0

#27 DB

DB

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 11,374 posts

Posted 12 September 2019 - 0652 AM

What happened to the cased telescoped stuff?
  • 0

#28 bojan

bojan

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 11,822 posts

Posted 12 September 2019 - 1036 AM

Run into problems with a combination of polymer cases and PETN based propellant (probably derivative of PE2N2A).


Edited by bojan, 12 September 2019 - 1708 PM.

  • 0

#29 JohnAbrams21

JohnAbrams21

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 292 posts

Posted 14 September 2019 - 1628 PM

Run into problems with a combination of polymer cases and PETN based propellant (probably derivative of PE2N2A).


From the slides and the Textron NGSW submissions, I thought that case-telescoped ammunition was still going strong as one of the contenders? Or are you talking about a different program?
  • 0

#30 Dawes

Dawes

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,642 posts

Posted 14 September 2019 - 1715 PM

Textron is still going with case telescoped ammo with their NGSW variant.


  • 0

#31 Simon Tan

Simon Tan

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 13,149 posts

Posted 15 September 2019 - 0403 AM

Sig has a steel/brass case solution. All are insane.
  • 0

#32 bojan

bojan

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 11,822 posts

Posted 15 September 2019 - 0603 AM

From the slides and the Textron NGSW submissions, I thought that case-telescoped ammunition was still going strong as one of the contenders? Or are you talking about a different program?

 

Yes, but prolelant was changed from PETN* based to unknown (friend is guessing RDX based propellant*.

 

 

* '80s called and want their "what did you mean, it wasn't made on drugs" high-energy propellants.


  • 0

#33 Chris Werb

Chris Werb

    In Zod We Trust

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 11,002 posts

Posted 15 September 2019 - 1539 PM

I take it the heat sink factor of brass cases isn't that important after all?


  • 0

#34 Panzermann

Panzermann

    REFORGER '79

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,648 posts

Posted 15 September 2019 - 1548 PM

I take it the heat sink factor of brass cases isn't that important after all?

 

 Brass actually transfers heat into the chamber. The plastic cannot really transfer heat to the chamber, so it is cooler in the first place.


  • 0

#35 Dawes

Dawes

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,642 posts

Posted 15 September 2019 - 1633 PM

The US military is traditionally very conservative, so I'm not too optimistic about the case telescoped round being adopted.


Edited by Dawes, 15 September 2019 - 1635 PM.

  • 0

#36 Chris Werb

Chris Werb

    In Zod We Trust

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 11,002 posts

Posted 17 September 2019 - 1437 PM

 

I take it the heat sink factor of brass cases isn't that important after all?

 

 Brass actually transfers heat into the chamber. The plastic cannot really transfer heat to the chamber, so it is cooler in the first place.

 

 

Thank you for clearing that one up for me.


  • 0

#37 Rick

Rick

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 4,240 posts

Posted 18 September 2019 - 0507 AM

How are today's optics compared to the old iron sights and what is the difference in training with the two?

Thank you.


  • 0

#38 Simon Tan

Simon Tan

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 13,149 posts

Posted 20 September 2019 - 2331 PM

There is no reason to have irons other than as a backup to your backup reflex collimator. Optics make everything better.
  • 0

#39 TTK Ciar

TTK Ciar

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,034 posts

Posted 26 September 2019 - 1533 PM

Run into problems with a combination of polymer cases and PETN based propellant (probably derivative of PE2N2A).


PE2N2A sounds intriguing. I have never heard of it until now and cannot find a reference for it. Could you share more details about it, please?
  • 0

#40 bojan

bojan

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 11,822 posts

Posted 26 September 2019 - 1829 PM

Basically PETN with two nitro groups reduced to amino groups (-NH2) which moves it from high explosives into (very) energetic propellant territory. Read a snip locally long time ago while still at university, it was tried as a propellant for a small rockets (in particular for boosters) in the '80s by multiple countries (US, France, Germany). Looked promising, but it is far from cheаp and burns at very high temperatures, so standard AG-4 (grass reinforced phenolic resin) insulation that is often used on small rockets could not deal with it.

I have no info if it is actual propellant used, but since propellant was noted to be PETN based, it (or some similar desensitized PETN derivate) is kinda logical assumption.


Edited by bojan, 26 September 2019 - 1836 PM.

  • 0