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Gaza ground op


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#1 Tzefa

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1555 PM

We have a topic for the air strikes, now lets have one for the grunts on the ground.

Will post here only whats been announced by the media sources. According to the reports, there are two armored divisions around Gaza. The IDF has entered the strip from 3 directions, the north, Karni, and near Rafah. So far Hamas has suffered some 50 casualties and none from our side, but its only been a couple of hours.

At the same time tens of thousands of reservists are being called up, and I assume a big part of them will actually go north, to the lebanese border, in case the Hizballah decides to do something stupid.

More updates as the situation develops.
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#2 John Dudek

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1629 PM

We have a topic for the air strikes, now lets have one for the grunts on the ground.

Will post here only whats been announced by the media sources. According to the reports, there are two armored divisions around Gaza. The IDF has entered the strip from 3 directions, the north, Karni, and near Rafah. So far Hamas has suffered some 50 casualties and none from our side, but its only been a couple of hours.

At the same time tens of thousands of reservists are being called up, and I assume a big part of them will actually go north, to the lebanese border, in case the Hizballah decides to do something stupid.

More updates as the situation develops.


Good luck and God Bless you all!!
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#3 Marek Tucan

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1637 PM

Good luck and God Bless you all!!


Seconded. Fewest possible casaulties (unfortunately there most likely will be some) and the most serious possible @ss-kicking delivered to the Hamas types.
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#4 Sparviero

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1643 PM

3rd May Israel be able to complete her mission with much success.

I saw today pictures from my home town of ungreatful immigrants protesting, was ashamed.

Edited by Sparviero, 03 January 2009 - 1644 PM.

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#5 sunday

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1645 PM

Good hunting!
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#6 Marek Tucan

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1659 PM

I saw today pictures from my home town of ungreatful immigrants protesting, was ashamed.


Don't be, not your fault ;)

Yesterday there was a demonstration in Prague, ca. 250 people - mix of pinko commies and muslims. Today, our country officially supported Israel :) Our MoForeign Affairs is to arrive to Israel tomorrow with an EU delegation.
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#7 FALightFighter

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1705 PM

Good hunting!


Seconded to that.
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#8 crazyinsane105

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1729 PM

So the battle of Gaza has begun...let's see who blinks first...the American backed Israeli military or the Syrian/Iranian/Saudi backed Hamas...
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#9 nitflegal

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1759 PM

So the battle of Gaza has begun...let's see who blinks first...the American backed Israeli military or the Syrian/Iranian/Saudi backed Hamas...


As nice as it is to dream of the Israelis going in and finally taking no-sh*t control of the situation once and for all, does anyone think it will actually happen?

Matt
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#10 DesertEagle

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1800 PM

Anyone who supports democracy should wish the Israelis success. I am praying that the ground op will achieve its goals and that Gilad Shalit will be returned to Israel unharmed.
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#11 Tzefa

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1810 PM

As nice as it is to dream of the Israelis going in and finally taking no-sh*t control of the situation once and for all, does anyone think it will actually happen?

Matt



From the horse's mouth: http://idfspokesperson.com/

Statement by the Minister of Defence, Mr. Ehud Barak:

“A few hours ago, Israeli ground forces entered the Gaza Strip as part of operation Cast Lead against the Hamas terrorists and their affiliates and infrastructure in Gaza.

So far, the Israeli Defense Forces have dealt an unprecedented heavy blow to Hamas. In order to complete their mission we now launched the ground operation.

I have said all along that our military activities will widen and deepen as much as needed. Our aim is to force Hamas to stop its hostile activities against Israel and Israelis from Gaza, and to bring about a significant change in the situation in Southern part of Israel.

and

IDF Spokesman Brigadier-General Avi Benayahu:

“The objective of this phase of the operation is to intensify the heavy blow already dealt to Hamas and to take control of area from where most of the rocket attacks against Israel originate, in order to reduce those rocket attacks.”

“Stage two of Operation Cast Lead has been launched to support our central goals which are to deal a heavy blow to the Hamas terror organization, to strengthen Israel’s deterrence, and to create a better security situation for those living around the Gaza Strip that will be maintained for the long term.”
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#12 crazyinsane105

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1813 PM

Anyone who supports democracy should wish the Israelis success. I am praying that the ground op will achieve its goals and that Gilad Shalit will be returned to Israel unharmed.


Not trying to change the topic, but how does democracy go with this? Honestly, I don't think anybody really cares if Israel is democracy or not. They happen to be America's ally in the Middle East, have strong lobbyist support from the US, etc. etc. The US supports dictators like Egypt's Mubarak and the Saudi monarchy. So next time if the Egyptians were going to conduct their own security operation with full US support, would you also claim be saying that anyone who supports democracy should wish an American supported dictator success in whatever they do?

And no, the Israelis have been doing God knows how many of these security operations ever since I was a freshman in high school, only to come up with the same situation a few years later regardless of what they did to Hamas. So I am quite pessimistic this will yield any new results.

Edited by crazyinsane105, 03 January 2009 - 1813 PM.

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#13 Rocky Davis

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1823 PM

Not trying to change the topic, but how does democracy go with this? Honestly, I don't think anybody really cares if Israel is democracy or not. They happen to be America's ally in the Middle East, have strong lobbyist support from the US, etc. etc. The US supports dictators like Egypt's Mubarak and the Saudi monarchy. So next time if the Egyptians were going to conduct their own security operation with full US support, would you also claim be saying that anyone who supports democracy should wish an American supported dictator success in whatever they do?

And no, the Israelis have been doing God knows how many of these security operations ever since I was a freshman in high school, only to come up with the same situation a few years later regardless of what they did to Hamas. So I am quite pessimistic this will yield any new results.


And, because their (the Israelis) hands are tied with the extent of what they can and cannot do on any given occasion (for whatever reason) is tied to that US "ally" deal, lest the Arab nations "allied" with the US take umbrage and further create cracks in the delicate "alliance" they have, then is it a surprise when the Israelis actually do something to protect themselves?

Get real . . . if you have been following this since you were a feshman in high school, then you would "get it" by now.

;)

(Spelling error . . . sorry).

Edited by Rocky Davis, 03 January 2009 - 1828 PM.

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#14 Tzefa

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1843 PM

Some tactical info:

1) The op began with an approx. 90 min artillery barrage on the entire length of the Gaza border

2) According to official reports, IDF forces moved in from the north and north-east, for the moment most of the fighting is concentrated in the north-east corner of the strip in Beit Lahya and Beit Hanun areas.
http://maps.google.c...U...mp;t=h&z=11

3) So far however the resistance has not been very intense, possibly Hamas pulled back into the more built up areas where they fell they'll have more of an advantage.

4) Palestinians also claim IDF movement in the south near the Dahanya airport (you can find it on the map opposite Kerem Shalom) and some fire contacts there.

5) There are unconfirmed reports in the arab media of a seaborne assault in the southern tip of Gaza, near Rafah and the egyptian border.
Could be bullshit, but maybe our wannabe-marines Givati finally got their chance : )

6) Armor columns also moving from Nahal Oz south, most likely to cut off Gaza-city from the rest of the strip - the usual move during past incursions.

Edited by Tzefa, 03 January 2009 - 1848 PM.

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#15 crazyinsane105

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1844 PM

And, because their (the Israelis) hands are tied with the extent of what they can and cannot do on any given occasion (for whatever reason) is tied to that US "ally" deal, lest the Arab nations "allied" with the US take umbrage and further create cracks in the delicate "alliance" they have, then is it a surprise when the Israelis actually do something to protect themselves?

Get real . . . if you have been following this since you were a feshman in high school, then you would "get it" by now.

;)

(Spelling error . . . sorry).


Point is, I don't think it matters what the Israelis are or would be (be them democracy or totalitarian or whatever), their actions would still be the same against Hamas. And the response from the US would still be the same. I'm just confused why if you support democracy, then you would wish the Israelis success has anything to relevant to do with this operation. :blink:
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#16 crazyinsane105

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1845 PM

5) There are unconfirmed reports in the arab media of a seaborne assault in the southern tip of Gaza, near Rafah and the egyptian border.
Could be bullshit, but maybe our wannabe-marines Givati finally got their chance : )


Yeah ABC News said the same, but they didn't confirm it or anything...they said 'possible' sea invasion.
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#17 DKTanker

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1858 PM

5) There are unconfirmed reports in the arab media of a seaborne assault in the southern tip of Gaza, near Rafah and the egyptian border.
Could be bullshit, but maybe our wannabe-marines Givati finally got their chance

A couple of hours ago somebody set off what looked like a large fuel fire along the coast...could be your wannabees.
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#18 DesertEagle

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 1934 PM

Not trying to change the topic, but how does democracy go with this? Honestly, I don't think anybody really cares if Israel is democracy or not. They happen to be America's ally in the Middle East, have strong lobbyist support from the US, etc. etc. The US supports dictators like Egypt's Mubarak and the Saudi monarchy. So next time if the Egyptians were going to conduct their own security operation with full US support, would you also claim be saying that anyone who supports democracy should wish an American supported dictator success in whatever they do?



You have misunderstood my point. And I would consider the Egyptians and Saudis reluctant allies, at best.

And no, the Israelis have been doing God knows how many of these security operations ever since I was a freshman in high school, only to come up with the same situation a few years later regardless of what they did to Hamas. So I am quite pessimistic this will yield any new results.


We will have to disagree on that one. Israel is in the midst of a tough neighborhood. Security operations have absolutely yielded positive results. Take a look back at the spring of 2002 and you will see the difference it has made. More recently (since 2006) the northern border with Lebanon has been relatively quiet. That wouldn't be the case if operations had not been initiated.

Edited by DesertEagle, 03 January 2009 - 1938 PM.

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#19 Tzefa

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 2333 PM

The fighting is still concentrated in the northern part of Gaza, on the site of the former settlement of Dugit (right on the beach in the northern tip of the strip) where elements of the airborne bde are in contact with Hamas gunmen.

According to army radio, the operation is multi-staged and at this point the IDF will not yet enter downtown Gaza-city and other cities. Next stages have not been approved so far by the political leadership.

30 WIA from our side, 2 in serious conditions.

On the more ironic side, IDF bomb or shell damaged a sewage collector in Beit Hanun and shit is flooding the streets.

Also, Hamas has stopped reporting on its casualties completely - probably to keep its morale.

In short, there most likely won't be any dramatic developments in the next couple of days at least. There's no blitzkrieg, IDF is advancing slowly and cautiously and the political leadership has not approved occupation of Gaza, only limited specific areas.
Of course it depends on how the operation goes forward.
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#20 Dave

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 0049 AM

War is never a good thing, but I do hope that Israel does not back down from International pressure and take's it to them once and for all!

On a side note, can anyone tell me what the purpose is of the IDF wearing those "mesh" looking things on their helmets?

Edited by Dave, 04 January 2009 - 0050 AM.

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