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#15121 glenn239

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Posted Today, 08:44 AM

 

 

The leaker’s only evidence is hearsay that has already been debunked by the released transcript of the phone call.

 

That's another piece of alternate reality.

The pseudo-transcripts confirmed the whistleblower's concerns.

 

 

The issue is that what should be at most some sort of letter of reprimand from Congress is being blown out of proportion.  In terms of the whistleblower's concerns, on the impeachment scale, ( a '10' being a conviction in the Senate), what they acted on was about a '3'.  


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#15122 lastdingo

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Posted Today, 08:58 AM

 

 

 

Yeah, I guess I'm very fringe among you guys here. Frankly, that's why I keep coming here, it gives an interesting perspective. Among most of my real-life friends and colleagues, in political discussions, I'm known as quite the right-wing Über-Hawk on most issues. I often tell them about this crazy internet forum I regularly visit, where people know me as the leftist SJW commie. They can never really believe it.  :D

 

 

There's a large slice of Canadian opinion (50%?) that tracks Trump and US politics broadly in the manner you do.  Heck, I have two siblings that are even more anti-Trump than you are.

 

 

By German standards I am a little left of centre, definitely not someone the far left would want to work with.

Also by German standards, TankNet is militarism central and the free fire zone is fascism central.


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#15123 Jeff

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Posted Today, 09:08 AM

In actual fact, there isnt a day that goes by on British Television when we dont learn what is going on in America. We are seemingly rather better informed about the US than the reverse. I suspect the only time you hear about Europe is when terrorist run amok.

 

Just because they talk about America doesn't mean they know diddly about America. Our own media fills the airwaves 24/7 with BS, I don't imagine the European media does any better. Yes, I know, the BBC would NEVER lie.

 

If the media, anywhere, are so smart, then how did Trump win? Enough Americans voted for him to make him President Trump. They still have no idea why.


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#15124 rmgill

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Posted Today, 09:14 AM

No, I'm not.


So what IS your criteria?
 

No, I don't. The only thing I care about is the expertise of the person making them.


So what makes someone an expert on politics?  

No, I'm sorry, I haven't heard about "Pajamana Media" before and don't know much about "Rathergate". Although I can imagine you're soon going to tell me all about it. ;)


Again, you're out of touch with reality and history.

Maybe small time people in Germany aren't shit unless they're backed by a major corporation, but over here, we have a long history of small time operators working independently who make big splashes and are useful for the cultural and political landscape. Perhaps it's a difference of conformity. Americans are culturally more independent and speak out a bit more.
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#15125 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted Today, 09:21 AM

 

In actual fact, there isnt a day that goes by on British Television when we dont learn what is going on in America. We are seemingly rather better informed about the US than the reverse. I suspect the only time you hear about Europe is when terrorist run amok.

 

Just because they talk about America doesn't mean they know diddly about America. Our own media fills the airwaves 24/7 with BS, I don't imagine the European media does any better. Yes, I know, the BBC would NEVER lie.

 

If the media, anywhere, are so smart, then how did Trump win? Enough Americans voted for him to make him President Trump. They still have no idea why.

 

 

In actual fact, the BBC keeps us better informed than you think. There was a former British politician called Ed Ball's who did a documentary on the heartland that voted for Trump. You might not agree with his conclusions, but his interviews with the American people were first rate. I know why they voted for Trump, and in turn, with the alternatives, I would have too. I will say I dont think I would be defending it 3 years on when the guy turned out to be a corrupt swampfiller, but thats just me.

https://www.dailymot...m/video/x6rygl3

Trump won because he was better than the alternative. Lets stop pretending that was setting the bar sky high.

 

 

The problem with Americans is, they think all the problems they suffer from are somehow unique. We had to deal with deindustrialization as long ago as the 1970's. Even Germany is getting there now. There is nothing exceptional about the problems facing America. We are even copying the type of politicians you have adopted that are trying, and from what I can see failing, to solve these same problems.

 

This myth of 'we dont understand Americans' keeps trotted out, but there is nothing about it that  we dont understand. I sympathize. I truly empathize with the Americans that have been given the shitty end of the stick. Its the story of my life growing up in England for the past 46 years. The difference is Ive not had to resort to a charlatan as a solution to my problems because thankfully Ive never had the choice between politicians whose only difference is in the level of their venality. Im fairly sure its coming though.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, Today, 09:23 AM.

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#15126 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted Today, 09:22 AM

.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, Today, 09:23 AM.

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#15127 rmgill

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Posted Today, 09:31 AM

I thought the problem was that it was peer reviewed - to ensure maximum groupthink. Remember JournoList?


That's another good example. However the whole thing of "peer review" is more relevant to scientific research, papers, experiments and cross checking of EVERYTHING in the peer review process.

At this point the media goes with a story, then cross checks it later and retracts. I've seen stories out that in my early days I know for a fact would have been grounds for firing for failing even basic journalistic procedures. "Fact Checking" and "Multiple Sources" are far more relevant terms than "Peer review" is.
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#15128 rmgill

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Posted Today, 09:39 AM

In actual fact, the BBC keeps us better informed than you think.


Given what I've seen out of them vis a vis 'stand your ground' and firearms self defense issues in the US, I would dispute that.

For a good example separate from that, how about the Parkland HS reports of the incident in DC. What were they initially? Was it "white kids harass innocent native American?"
 

The problem with Americans is, they think all the problems they suffer from are somehow unique. We had to deal with deindustrialization as long ago as the 1970's. Even Germany is getting there now. There is nothing exceptional about the problems facing America. We are even copying the type of politicians you have adopted that are trying, and from what I can see failing, to solve these same problems.


Well I don't. But then you lot keep saying you're all terribly different and that the problems aren't the same with regards to the culture war. Then I see a British Police officer lecturing people via video about the proper use of transgender pronouns in a suitably LGBTQ embellished uniform and it's clear that you have the SAME culture war, just further along. Then I read a book by Theodore Darymple about the state of the underclass in the UK. It sounds amazingly like the underclass in the US who have all of the same behaviors and predilections with all of the same forward thinking views and inability to make even the most basic of good decisions, the only missing component is a racial one.

So no, it's clearly not.

This myth of 'we dont understand Americans' keeps trotted out, but there is nothing about it that we dont understand.


How many times have you used this argument to us about how we don't understand the UK? How many times ahve you lot lectured myself, or X-Files or E5M or Murph about the state of criminal incidents and the underclass or any other facets in the US?

There are some things we don't understand. Like why you consider a trip of 200 miles to be worthy of Shackleton and a bevy of support staff while we're fine with taking a 200 mile trip to go pick something up for the afternoon.

But culturally, we're based on you guys, plus German, plus a bunch of other stuff.

Edited by rmgill, Today, 09:47 AM.

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#15129 Yama

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Posted Today, 09:44 AM

The Kurds were a pawn in the big political game. Get over it.


Of course they were. Trump, however, is terrible player of any such game.
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#15130 rmgill

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Posted Today, 09:50 AM

Given how much of an awful mess the middle east is, pretty much everyone else is too going back through WWI and before. Part of the problem also is that the Middle east has been screwed up since before the time of the Ottomans. I suspect the only way to fix it would a strong empire taking it and running it with a jackboot and then slowly over 2-3 generations instituting gradual changes that include better education, western enlightenment ideals and a strong effort to minimize the shit behavior in the islamic world. Lacking that, it's going to remain a festering wound on the world's body politic.
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#15131 DKTanker

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Posted Today, 09:55 AM

Given how much of an awful mess the middle east is, pretty much everyone else is too going back through WWI and before. Part of the problem also is that the Middle east has been screwed up since before the time of the Ottomans. I suspect the only way to fix it would a strong empire taking it and running it with a jackboot and then slowly over 2-3 generations instituting gradual changes that include better education, western enlightenment ideals and a strong effort to minimize the shit behavior in the islamic world. Lacking that, it's going to remain a festering wound on the world's body politic.

British and French tried to, screwed it up even worse, now blame the US for not being able, or willing, to do what they couldn't do.


Edited by DKTanker, Today, 09:56 AM.

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#15132 Der Zeitgeist

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Posted Today, 10:14 AM

 

No, I don't. The only thing I care about is the expertise of the person making them.


So what makes someone an expert on politics?

 

Here's a few criteria that generally work pretty well. Not all of them are there at the same time, of course, but it's a good list to check if someone maybe knows what he's talking about.

  • Having worked in politics or government positions before.
  • Personally knowing some of the people involved in the stuff you're writing about.
  • Knowing the procedures and institutions that are in play. Don't know how the EU policy process works? Then you probably won't be an expert on Brexit.
  • Having some knowledge about the larger history and background of a subject you're writing or reporting about. Don't know the difference between ISIS and Al Qaida? Nope, not a "terrorism expert". Using words like Mullah or Ayatollah, but don't know what those actualy are? Not an expert on Iran, either.
  • Being able to understand the relevant language of the country or region you're writing or reporting about. Don't know any Arabic or Korean? Sorry, you're probably not a Syria or DPRK expert then.
  • Having some technical knowledge about the technical issues you're writing or reporting about. Especially relevant with things like nuclear weapons, disarmament, ballistic missiles.
  • Generally having made the right call in writing or reporting about issues in the past. You made a dozen YouTube videos of how easy Brexit would be? Sorry, not gonna listen to anything from you about Brexit & the EU. You thought Iraq was full of WMDs in 2003? Sorry, probably not someone I'd listen to when you talk about disarming Iran or North Korea.

Now, maybe try checking some of your favourite YouTube "pundits" with this list and find me some real experts.


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#15133 rmgill

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Posted Today, 10:34 AM

Here's a few criteria that generally work pretty well. Not all of them are there at the same time, of course, but it's a good list to check if someone maybe knows what he's talking about.

  • Having worked in politics or government positions before.

So most reporters are right out you know? And frankly some shouldn't' be in because of this. Though, James Carville IS entertaining. I suppose having partisan characters in your reporting is a way to have inside scoops on stories...or something.


 
 
  • Personally knowing some of the people involved in the stuff you're writing about.


Ben Shapiro should be a go to for you then.

 
 
 

Knowing the procedures and institutions that are in play. Don't know how the EU policy process works? Then you probably won't be an expert on Brexit.


So most reporters are out again. They're experts on NOTHING usually and woefully uninformed about many things they write or opine about.
 
 
 

Having some knowledge about the larger history and background of a subject you're writing or reporting about. Don't know the difference between ISIS and Al Qaida? Nope, not a "terrorism expert". Using words like Mullah or Ayatollah, but don't know what those actualy are? Not an expert on Iran, either.


Again most reporters are out. They're experts on writing. That's pretty much it.
 
 
 

Being able to understand the relevant language of the country or region you're writing or reporting about. Don't know any Arabic or Korean? Sorry, you're probably not a Syria or DPRK expert then.


Again, most reporters are out.
 

Having some technical knowledge about the technical issues you're writing or reporting about. Especially relevant with things like nuclear weapons, disarmament, ballistic missiles.


Guns. Law. Tanks, etc. Most reporters right out. Again, speaking from personal and direct experience. Ben Shapiro, being a lawyer, is qualified to talk abut law you know. Which is an intersection of politics.
 

Generally having made the right call in writing or reporting about issues in the past. You made a dozen YouTube videos of how easy Brexit would be? Sorry, not gonna listen to anything from you about Brexit & the EU. You thought Iraq was full of WMDs in 2003? Sorry, probably not someone I'd listen to when you talk about disarming Iran or North Korea.


So, all the folks who said Trump wouldn't win are experts?
 

Now, maybe try checking some of your favourite YouTube "pundits" with this list and find me some real experts.


Perhaps you could give me some of your go to sources that match all of this?

Edited by rmgill, Today, 10:45 AM.

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#15134 lastdingo

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Posted 59 minutes ago

We had to deal with deindustrialization as long ago as the 1970's. Even Germany is getting there now. There is nothing exceptional about the problems facing America.

 

I disagree

 

1) Germany's manufacturing sector dropped from 31% GDP to 25.8% GDP from 1991 to 2018. That's far from deindustrialization. UK and U.S. are at about 20%.

In fact, employment in the "Industrie" (large manufacturing industries, excluding workshops) rose from 5.1 to 5.66 million since 2005.

https://www.deutschl...n-der-industrie

 

2) Lots of American problems are unique because their policies and political culture are so awful that they suffer from problems that were solved in Europe 20...130 years ago. They're extremely backward in regard to solving problems that their society is facing. The U.S. and Germany were world-leading in many aspects by the very early 1900's, now neither is. We need to look at Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Estonia, California these days if we want to find at least sectoral leadership in regard to mastering modern challenges.


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#15135 Der Zeitgeist

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Posted 56 minutes ago

So most reporters are right out you know?


Of course reporters are out. The job of a journalist isn't to become an expert in a particular field. His job is to find the relevant experts, read up on them or talk to them and report their findings. In today's media environment and markets, it's almost impossible to become an expert journalist in a narrow field.

 

Perhaps you could give me some of your go to sources that match all of this?


No one is going to match of all of this, as I explained above. But experts in a particular field should match at least SOME of those criteria.

So, a few experts I like to read on some of the subjects I mentioned on my list, with their Twitter handles:

-Brexit, the EU & current UK politics:
Chris Hanretty @chrishanretty
Alexander Clarkson @APHClarkson
Henry Newman @HenryNewman
Andreas Busch @anbusch
Nicolai von Ondarza @NvOndarza
Jeremy Cliffe @JeremyCliffe
Jon Worth @jonworth

-Nonproliferation, Disarmament, Nuclear Weapons:
Jeffrey Lewis @ArmsControlWonk
Kingston Reif @KingstonAReif
Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
Hans Kristensen @nukestrat
Ankit Panda @nktpnd

-North Korea
Andrei Lankov @andreilankov
Abraham M. Denmark @AbeDenmark
Robert E Kelly @Robert_E_Kelly

-Security & Defence policy in general:
Wolfgang Ischinger @ischinger
Ulrich Speck @ulrichspeck
James Acton @james_acton32


Edited by Der Zeitgeist, 53 minutes ago.

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#15136 JWB

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Posted 40 minutes ago

 

We had to deal with deindustrialization as long ago as the 1970's. Even Germany is getting there now. There is nothing exceptional about the problems facing America.

 

 

 

 We need to look at Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Estonia, California these days if we want to find at least sectoral leadership in regard to mastering modern challenges.

 

Exactly what are these modern challenges and why on earth do you believe California has anything to offer?


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#15137 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 12 minutes ago

Given how much of an awful mess the middle east is, pretty much everyone else is too going back through WWI and before. Part of the problem also is that the Middle east has been screwed up since before the time of the Ottomans. I suspect the only way to fix it would a strong empire taking it and running it with a jackboot and then slowly over 2-3 generations instituting gradual changes that include better education, western enlightenment ideals and a strong effort to minimize the shit behavior in the islamic world. Lacking that, it's going to remain a festering wound on the world's body politic.

British and French tried to, screwed it up even worse, now blame the US for not being able, or willing, to do what they couldn't do.

It's like a geopolitical version of pass the parcel. Who fucked it up last? So own it.
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