Jump to content


Photo

Mystery Crash In The Nevada Desert


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 Dawes

Dawes

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,793 posts

Posted 11 September 2017 - 1928 PM

Doesn't indicate if the lone fatality was a solo crewmember or not. :

 

http://www.popularme...-nevada-desert/



#2 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Welcome to the new world disorder

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 39,641 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Looking at Elephants from the wrong end

Posted 12 September 2017 - 0152 AM

Yes, fiver says it was a Flanker of some description. A similar accident occured in the early 1980s, when a USAF general crashed in the nevada range and was killed, the aircraft he died in not announced. The conspiracy theorists claimed it was everything from a prototype stealth fighter, to a reverse engineered flying saucer.

 

As it turned out, he died in a flat spin in a Mig23.

 

 

 

Ok, hands up who built the model of the F19? :D



#3 Sikkiyn

Sikkiyn

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 4,660 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 September 2017 - 1128 AM

b3b.jpg



#4 ink

ink

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,280 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgrade, Yugoslavia
  • Interests:Military stuff, political stuff, history stuff, beer.

Posted 13 September 2017 - 1608 PM

Stuart summed it up so well he basically killed the thread...

 

 

...unless it was one of these:

Mig37_Italeri.jpg


Edited by ink, 13 September 2017 - 1608 PM.


#5 Dawes

Dawes

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,793 posts

Posted 13 September 2017 - 2028 PM

I'm going with Airwolf.



#6 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Welcome to the new world disorder

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 39,641 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Looking at Elephants from the wrong end

Posted 14 September 2017 - 0224 AM

Stuart summed it up so well he basically killed the thread...

 

 

...unless it was one of these:

Mig37_Italeri.jpg

 

Im sorry. I seem to have an annoying habit of doing that. :(

 

The Red Eagles is officially defunct, and has been since about 1988.  There have been unverifiable reports of Mig29s flying over the site, even one time a SU27 with Sorbyitsa (im sure Ive spelt that wrong) flying over it. Then, a few months ago, someone photographed this.

 

If anyone hasnt read this yet, do consider getting a copy because its excellent. Particularly the sections on how they acquired and how they kept the Mig-23's operational. Interestingly the author noted that one of the former pilots of the squadron kept an SU27 model on his desk. 'Its not because he thinks its pretty' the author was told.

https://www.amazon.c...n/dp/1846039703

 

 

Never built the Mig37 model, though I do recall staring longingly at it in the high street model shop. I never got the Bob Lazar S4 UFO either. :(


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 14 September 2017 - 0227 AM.


#7 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Welcome to the new world disorder

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 39,641 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Looking at Elephants from the wrong end

Posted 14 September 2017 - 0225 AM

I'm going with Airwolf.

 

Well Ernest Borgnine has passed away, so it was probably something important they couldnt fix....



#8 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Welcome to the new world disorder

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 39,641 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Looking at Elephants from the wrong end

Posted 14 September 2017 - 0232 AM

There was a company in the US that owned a Mig29 and a SU27 supposedly for a Dact contract, but I cant find the link now. I did find this though....



#9 ink

ink

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,280 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgrade, Yugoslavia
  • Interests:Military stuff, political stuff, history stuff, beer.

Posted 14 September 2017 - 0603 AM

Then, a few months ago, someone photographed this.

 

 

Really nice shot of the Flanker flying past the moon!



#10 RETAC21

RETAC21

    A la lealtad y al valor

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 12,152 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Madrid, Spain
  • Interests:Military history in general

Posted 14 September 2017 - 0638 AM

There was a company in the US that owned a Mig29 and a SU27 supposedly for a Dact contract, but I cant find the link now. I did find this though....

 

The US guvmint bought a squadron of MiG-29s back in the 90s from Moldavia, to keep them from preying hands...



#11 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Welcome to the new world disorder

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 39,641 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Looking at Elephants from the wrong end

Posted 14 September 2017 - 0646 AM

Ah yeah, I remember vaguely reading something about that. Not very clear what happened to them afterwards either. If they have been flying out of Tonopah, it seems to have been fairly irregular. There were reports about 2003-2004, then nothing until last year. Of course maybe they were just keeping things under wraps, but im not quite sure why.

 

 

 

Then, a few months ago, someone photographed this.

 

 

Really nice shot of the Flanker flying past the moon!

 

Flanker can into Space! :)

 

Ive always dug this aircraft since I flew the old eagle dynamics sim of it back in about 1995. Hard to believe DCS has roots that go that far back.



#12 glenn239

glenn239

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,192 posts

Posted 14 September 2017 - 0730 AM

The USAF is listed on Wiki as an operator of SU-27's, a pair most recently purchased from Ukraine. 


Edited by glenn239, 14 September 2017 - 0733 AM.


#13 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Welcome to the new world disorder

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 39,641 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Looking at Elephants from the wrong end

Posted 14 September 2017 - 0737 AM

Yeah that would make sense. The colour scheme on the one above looks most commonly seen on Ukrainian Flankers. Last I heard most of them were grounded for want of parts anyway. ALL the Belarus ones are now apparently.



#14 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 12,508 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 16 September 2017 - 0759 AM

According to this article, one of leading Russian test pilots was warning Eric Schultz not to try to do some of Russian test pilots maneuvers on Su family fighters - despite highly valuing his skills as pilot, he was lacking knowledge of Russian planes specifics, and it was dangerous for him
https://www.bfm.ru/news/365040



#15 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 12,508 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 16 September 2017 - 0800 AM

Yeah that would make sense. The colour scheme on the one above looks most commonly seen on Ukrainian Flankers. Last I heard most of them were grounded for want of parts anyway. ALL the Belarus ones are now apparently.

What use in buying planes that are at least 25 years old? Modern Su fighters are very different...



#16 ink

ink

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,280 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgrade, Yugoslavia
  • Interests:Military stuff, political stuff, history stuff, beer.

Posted 16 September 2017 - 0823 AM


Yeah that would make sense. The colour scheme on the one above looks most commonly seen on Ukrainian Flankers. Last I heard most of them were grounded for want of parts anyway. ALL the Belarus ones are now apparently.

What use in buying planes that are at least 25 years old? Modern Su fighters are very different...
Recent Russian Flanker variants may indeed be "very different" but there are a lot of older airframes knocking about around the world and it isn't inconceivable that US pilots will face them in air combat at some point. With that in mind, doesn't it make sense to try to avoid any nasty surprises?

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Edited by ink, 16 September 2017 - 0824 AM.


#17 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 12,508 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 16 September 2017 - 0846 AM

 

Recent Russian Flanker variants may indeed be "very different" but there are a lot of older airframes knocking about around the world and it isn't inconceivable that US pilots will face them in air combat at some point. With that in mind, doesn't it make sense to try to avoid any nasty surprises?

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

I am not aviation affairs expert - but seems to me USAF strategy in dealing with both "older airframes" and new Rus planes is long distance shot using advantage of low visibility, superior avionics (including data link to  AWACS and other planes) and superior missiles. Being engaged in WWII-style against  Su fighter is already indication of "something went wrong", and testing it is like testing "how good is M16 bayonet vs. WWI rifle bayonet".



#18 glenn239

glenn239

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,192 posts

Posted 16 September 2017 - 0922 AM

Back in the day Tom Cruise did the movie "Top Gun", where they spent the first part of the flick highlighting a bunch of stuff from Vietnam in which the pilots needed to relearn how to dogfight with guns so Tom, Val and the rest march off to the desert to learn air combat maneuver.  At the end of the movie Tom goes up against the enemy and proceeds to shoot down everything in sight with missiles while the enemy missiles (mostly) miss the target.


Edited by glenn239, 16 September 2017 - 0923 AM.


#19 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Welcome to the new world disorder

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 39,641 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Looking at Elephants from the wrong end

Posted 16 September 2017 - 1109 AM

 

Yeah that would make sense. The colour scheme on the one above looks most commonly seen on Ukrainian Flankers. Last I heard most of them were grounded for want of parts anyway. ALL the Belarus ones are now apparently.

What use in buying planes that are at least 25 years old? Modern Su fighters are very different...

 

 

Well an SU35 is streets ahead of an SU27, ill grant you. Its about level pegging with a Eurofighter. Which considering the F22 pilots were surprised at how good the Rafale and the Typhoon were when they tangled with the USAF, is pause for thought.... Clearly the RUAF still uses lots of Su27s, so for that matter do the Chinese and many nations around the world. So its not as if such training is valueless.

 

Its worth remembering, most of the time the Red Eagles were operating Soviet aircraft, it was older obsolete types (mainly mig21s and Mig17s), because that was all they could get hold of. Im sure if the USAF similarly today would get SU30s off the peg they probably would. But it would mean a lot of capablities they would never use. What they really want is an aircraft that looks like an existing Russian type (just so the radar can give an accurate response) and handles as close as they can to modern types. If they bought an SU30, they would end up stripping most of the kit out, because what they want is a DACT trainer. When they operated Mig23s, the USAF pretty much stripped them out so they were bare bones with just a radar. I dont htink they even had external tanks mounted on them.

 

From time to time they do borrow more advanced types. I think I read somewhere they had trialled an Su30 they had borrowed from someone (The RAF did the same thing when they tangled with the Indian Air Force), just to get an overview on radar systems and the performance of helmet sights.

 

Is this all somewhat artificial worrying about DACT, when quite clearly we have some advantages in long range shots? Yes... But clearly long range missiles have historically underperformed. Last time the USN used its phoenix missiles against the Iraqis, they all missed. The USAF and USN went into Vietnam believing all the hype on the brochures about how well the missile performed. I dont think they mean to make the same mistake again.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 16 September 2017 - 1110 AM.


#20 RETAC21

RETAC21

    A la lealtad y al valor

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 12,152 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Madrid, Spain
  • Interests:Military history in general

Posted 16 September 2017 - 1219 PM

An AIM-9X missed a old Su-22 in Syria this year, so never bet for 100% missile accuracy and reliability. Dogfighting with the actual "enemy" is always an advantage.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users