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Marines To Shut Down All Tank Units


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#41 Burncycle360

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 1331 PM

None of this would have to happen if the MIC wasnt about par, as far as efficiency goes, to just burning pallets of cash.

Its a struggle to figure out how to pay the exorbitant prices rather than how to get those reduced. Even the US can only do that for so long.
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#42 Ken Estes

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 1402 PM

As I wrote in 2000:

 

Today, the Marine Corps maintains a precarious balance in its armored fighting vehicle inventory, with modern units fielding capable weapons. The lessons of the Gulf War reside mainly in the archives and with the collective  but fading memories of the armored units themselves. Just as in 1945, one cannot speak of “armor” in the Marine Corps, just tank, amtrac and now armored reconnaissance units, which may or may not be used in modern combined arms or limited military operations with imagination and verve. We can expect to see a continuing search by the Marine Corps for the “light fighting tank” or even a tankless fighting vehicle force. The doctrinal weakness for operating mechanized forces may continue, as well as the emphasis on the smallest of units, especially with the reluctance to attempt costly mechanized and amphibious operations or exercises of any appreciable scale.  However small, the virtues of a technically and tactically superior fighting vehicle force remain a marked Marine Corps tradition.  It only remains for its leaders to take the fullest advantage

 


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#43 Ivanhoe

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 1532 PM

Looking at https://en.wikipedia...t_Command_ships, what combination of MSC ship types would be required to sustain a heavy MC? Lets say, one USMC division were assigned "heavy" configuration.


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#44 Ken Estes

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 1704 PM

In my service I never saw a planned or projected force list for the assault follow-on echelon for any size unit in an amphibious operation, let alone a 'heavy' USMC division. I'd say that's because the composition of that element remained a USN responsibility to meet the requirements of the landing force from the assets of the sealift command and other shipping taken up by mobilization. The requirements would be expressed in simple terms of square and cube, special loads, liquid requirements and so forth. The shipping would be sortied under exclusively USN command and would also include USN barging, construction battalions and port companies. General offloading would begin after the force beachhead was established and the landing force command & control established ashore.

 

If it helps at all, my old office records show the force requirements of the assault echelon would be an amphibious task force of 29 ships: 1 LCC command ship, 2 LHA, 25 others. Add to that required minesweepers, escorts, fire support ships, CV air support, Naval Beach Group.Source is USMC Brief to Navy 21 Study (21-22 Dec 87).


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#45 Ivanhoe

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 2347 PM

I was thinking of the heavy ground-pounders being somewhat separate from the amphib/gator folks. Dunno if that makes sense in 21st century or not.


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#46 Ken Estes

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 1125 AM

All USMC ground combat and combat support units are capable and used in amphibious operations. Maritime prepositioning shipping squadrons [three sets] have usually carried heavy equipment for the ground combat echelon [and selected aviation combat echelon gear] of a Marine Brigade: an infantry regiment [with AAV bn], an artillery battalion, a LAR battalion, a tank battalion (-1 company), cbt engineer company and heavy engineer and other detachments [bulk cargo also]. Other than maintenance personnel MPS have no embarked brigade troops, which are flown in to the port of arrival of the MPS squadron by military and commercial air transport.

 

If you are asking about shipping required to support a USMC division already deployed overseas, then my comment on shipping for the assault follow-on echelon would apply. Furthermore, once in theater for 60 days, USMC and other ground forces rely upon a COSCOM established and operated by the army for common logistical requirements {i.e. support for service peculiar equipment remains the responsibility of said service). A recent example would be the logistical buildup in Kuwait for the 2003 invasion and occupation of Iraq. You may remember the reports of shipping clogging the Persian Gulf prior to the 1991 and 2003 campaigns; these were mostly commercial and military sealift with a smattering of late arrival amphibious assault shipping.

 

ETA: A 'heavy' USMC division could be assembled from all three MPS squadron loadouts, but the squadrons are usually scattered worldwide and such a composite unit would have less capability once assembled than a T/O division, thus usually to be avoided.


Edited by Ken Estes, 29 March 2020 - 1130 AM.

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#47 Ken Estes

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Posted 30 March 2020 - 1006 AM

First the tanks, then the artillery, now the aircraft wing. This is beginning to look like the “ Commando “ model.
This CMC is very dangerous.Ugly
 
 

Edited by Ken Estes, 30 March 2020 - 1007 AM.

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#48 Nobu

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Posted 30 March 2020 - 1301 PM

The beginning of the end of the USMC.


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