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#1 Mighty_Zuk

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Posted 27 March 2020 - 1505 PM

So this is the 2nd time I'm dedicating a post to bashing a youtuber named RedEffect, and now it's honestly just infuriating. Here's the link:
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=0l162zutT6M

He claims (all) top attack missiles are not what they are claimed to be, yet no mention of said claims.
So let's disseminate his talking points, shall we?

1)The Javelin is not guaranteed to hit the roof.
2)The farther away the Javelin launcher is from the target, the lower the angle of attack.
3)Most areas of impact, or actually all but the roof, are invulnerable to the Javelin.
4)TOW-2B warhead is small.
5)spall liners and armoring of the ammo carousel in Soviet and Russian tanks will probably completely negate the effect of penetration.


All that is utter bollocks, and the first sign for that is the fact he chose to only examine two top attack missiles, including one that is not even a top attack missile in the traditional form, rather a quasi top attack missile that partially harnesses the advantages of the first generation of top attack missiles, but misses on all the advantages of modern, 4th and 5th gen missiles that use the top attack mode to vastly enhance and even multiply the effectiveness of new capabilities.


First, indeed the Javelin is not guaranteed to hit the roof. And it really doesn't need to. If it hits the tank, there is a very high chance of not only penetration, but for a mission kill.

Second, it is true that at longer range it will not have the necessary energy to allow a high angle of attack, but that is why manufacturers usually design weapon systems in a way that their range exceeds what is actually required, to give the user enough spare energy for the needed range.
I'd personally be surprised if anyone would be firing the Javelin at its actual max range, for many good reasons that are true for ALL missiles.

Third, armor design is in modern systems is very sophisticated. It is not just a chunk of material with X resistance. It is a complex array of synergetic materials that each fulfill a certain function, in a certain order. And because of that order, and because of the science behind angling of armor, armor arrays are usually highly optimized at stopping projectiles coming from a predicted path, but poor at stopping projectiles coming from a very unexpected path.
Modern armor is reactive, and it goes from ERA to SLERA, NERA, and then NxRA and variations between them. The nature of said armor greatly benefits from its angling. Even tanks or other AFVs with seemingly flat walls, like the K2's front or any other tank's side armor (if they have composite side armor) don't really have vertical armor panels. It's just the external design of it, but inside they're sloped to achieve greater effect.
ERA is extremely volatile and can negate much of the energy of HEAT, but if the impact is perpendicular, the ERA will have a negligible effect.

Therefore, when a Javelin, or any other top attack missile, hits a tank at any point other than the roof, it's still far more likely to penetrate than not. And that is because neither the front nor side armor are designed to defeat HEAT from a high impact angle. And the roof ERA is not there to defeat top attack munitions, simply by looking at its angling. But there is enough footage to prove that tanks like the T-series can be penetrated at the upper section of the turret with APFSDS, so roof ERA can be very beneficial in preventing that.

Fourth, the TOW-2B is not an actual top attack missile and therefore does not even belong in the video. But since it's already mentioned, its warhead, unlike other missile, hits the roof in a perpendicular angle. Meaning if there is roof ERA that is parallel to the roof, it's not going to do much.
One point I didn't touch on, roof ERA usually has to be thin to avoid obstructing the view. That means the inner plates cannot have a significant angle either way.


Fifth, spall liners do actually significantly degrade the effect of fragmentation inside the vehicle, but are not the magical defense it is claimed to be, especially when top attack missiles penetrate the roof or whatever surface they impact, with great overmatch.


He obviously fails to even mention missiles like the Spike, which is more popular worldwide and widely adopted by NATO members so it's just as likely to meet Russian tanks, the Chinese HJ-10, and the French MMP that is set to replace the Milan and is believed to also be a commercial success.
Those 3 missiles use a man in the loop to guide the missile to a desired point of impact, which immediately negate most of the youtuber's points.
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#2 Dawes

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Posted 27 March 2020 - 1831 PM

Doesn't TOW 2B overfly the target and fire it's EFP slugs downward?


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#3 Mighty_Zuk

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Posted 27 March 2020 - 1940 PM

Doesn't TOW 2B overfly the target and fire it's EFP slugs downward?


Yes, it does. Technically, it IS a top attack missile, because it attacks the top of the vehicle. But other than flying with a slight vertical offset, it shares none of the innate traits of proper top attack missiles, such as the elevated trajectory, potential for NLOS attacks, full Fire & Forget, and (presumably) multipurpose targeting.
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#4 Mighty_Zuk

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Posted 15 April 2020 - 1356 PM

What appears to be a Nimrod missile used by IDF's Maglan elite unit.

 

11.png


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