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A Visual Examination Of The Battle Of Prokhorovka


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#21 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 0157 AM

I find it challenging, lets put it like that. :)


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#22 Martin M

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 0206 AM

Thank you for a response !


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#23 Adam Peter

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 0238 AM

the Italians and Hungarians withdrawing their forces from Russia


Hungary did not withdraw it's forces, the Second Army has been destroyed "at the curve of the Don river" in January 1943.

The First Army was used in 1944 to counter-attack in Galicia to connect the 200 km wide hole in the German front line between the South and North Ukraine Army Groups.


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#24 Colin

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 1138 AM

so tell me please, where does any of us see a tank on any of the fotos ?   I can see spots and blotches. They could be tanks if you were used to anaylizing such fotos.

I am guessing the resolution of the original photo's is much better, but for bandwith they had to use lower quality. 


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#25 Martin M

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 1231 PM

That is an appropriate explanation.

 

 

Come on Milo - it´s interesting, but give us the real photos :)

 

 

always interesting in a Panzer 3 or 4 I like this one:

Figure 23. GX-3734-SK-61–16 July – Location of a frontally knocked out Pz IV (left of photograph) – just beyond Hill 252.2’s crest (sited in the middle of the minor road – turret aiming at targets to its left) – An operational Tiger tank is visible (see also Figure 4. large tank – sited behind a road to the rear of the Pz IV).

 

now where is left of photograph ?

:)


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#26 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 1244 PM

Ive a feeling thats ordinary resolution. If you look at Google Earth, they have Luftwaffe imagery overlay for most of the UK if you set it at the 1940's. The resolution is no better. I guess it was probaby highly dependent on the speed and altitude they took it at.


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#27 MiloMorai

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 1705 PM

Come on Milo - it´s interesting, but give us the real photos :)


If you want better photos, you will have contact the author of the article.
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#28 Colin

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 1850 PM

Ive a feeling thats ordinary resolution. If you look at Google Earth, they have Luftwaffe imagery overlay for most of the UK if you set it at the 1940's. The resolution is no better. I guess it was probaby highly dependent on the speed and altitude they took it at.

Only goes to 2011

 

tank ditch is 

 51° 0'42.15"N

 36°38'35.01"E


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#29 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 0205 AM

Looking again, its much more localized than I remember. But it does have London, Cheltenham, Cardiff, Birmingham, Newcastle, Chester and Edinburgh. My local airfield is on it, showing what appears to be a Lockheed Hudson flying over it. :D

 

Doesnt seem to feature the continent sadly.


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#30 Ken Estes

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 0342 AM

Between February 1943 and July 1944, no Hungarian Army forces served with the German Army in the east. Survivors of the Hungarian Second Army after the Second Battle of Voronezh were repatriated to Hungary by the German command. No replacements were forthcoming from Hungary.


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#31 Leo Niehorster

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 0713 AM

After the near destruction of the Second Army in January 1943, it was placed in charge of the occupation forces on 17 January 43, and subsequently redesignated as the Hungarian Occupation Forces Command on 1 May 1943. Parts of which had already been in the occupation forces, parts were remnants of the 2nd Hungarian Army. On 1 January 43 there had been seven security divisions (1, 102, 105, 108, 121, 124, 201 Light Divisions); by 4 March 1943 this had increased to eleven, (these same 1, 102, 105, 108, 121, 124, 201 Light Divisions, plus four former Second Army 9, 12, 19, 23 Light Divisions (reforming). By 7 July 43, there were thirteen, (1, 2, 5, 8, 9, 12, 18, 19, 21, 23, 24, 25, 201 Light Divisions); with the total manpower growing to 121,000 men. In addition, approximately four infantry regiments plus misc. other units arrived from 1943. to early 1944. (Note that the light divisions were consolidated into nine three-regiment divisions over the winter 1943/44.)

 

You can download my book. Specifically, see Chapter 13, which deals with the Hungarian occupation forces.

 http://http://niehor...y_1920-1945.pdf

 


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#32 DogDodger

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 1533 PM

Coincidentally, I recently started Lawrence's comically large tome on the battle. It may take a while. :(
W3zjFVp.jpg
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#33 Nobu

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 2336 PM

Interesting to note the weight of Russian artillery on the defense in a battle with no breakthrough and pursuit on the attack. That weight must have been paralyzing, especially to the attacking infantry and combat engineers.


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#34 Ken Estes

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 0559 AM

Thanks Leo, I stand corrected.


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#35 Adam Peter

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 1506 PM

Thanks Leo, I stand corrected.

 

Krisztián Ungváry has also many books about the various level of operations of the Royal Hungarian Army, and events of the first half of the last century up to 1956. Unfortunately I was not able to find his book about the Occupation Forces in English, only a review of it among other works, starting at page 130.


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