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Kaga Found

Second Vessel may be Akagi

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#1 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 0408 AM

https://www.dailymai...tle-Midway.html

Researchers find a SECOND Japanese warship using deep sea robots in the middle of the Pacific Ocean from WWII Battle of Midway which saw six carriers sink
  • Searches around Hawaii led crew of the Petrel to find the Japanese ship the Kaga
  • Crew are now deploying equipment to investigate what could be another carrier
  • It's believed the second Japanese carrier could be either the Akagi or the Soryu 
  • Battle of Midway was turning point in WWII and a key U.S. victory
  • The crew are searching the vast area for other sunken warships in the coming days of which a further four remain
  • Weeks of grid searches around the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands have already led the crew of the Petrel to one sunken battleship
  • This week the crew is deploying equipment to investigate what could be another

 

Researchers discovered a second Japanese warship in the middle of the Pacific Ocean on Sunday - which sank almost 80 years ago during the Battle of Midway in the Second World War.

The battle in 1942, was a key turning point in the U.S. victory in World War II but led to the loss of six warships - four Japanese and two American. A Japanese cruiser was also destroyed.

Since then, most of the ships have remained lost at the bottom of the ocean, aside from the American carrier the USS Yorktown, which was found by an expedition in 1998, three miles below the surface.

Now new technology has allowed researchers to go deeper than ever before, and scientists have uncovered two of the downed Japanese carriers; the Kaga last week, and what appears to be either the Akagi or the Soryu on Sunday.

Vulcan Inc. director of undersea operations Rob Kraft said a review of sonar data captured Sunday shows the Akagi or Soryu resting in nearly 18,000 feet of water in the Pacific Ocean more than 1,300 miles northwest of Pearl Harbor.

 

The researchers used an autonomous deep sea underwater vehicle, or AUV, equipped with sonar to find the ship. The vehicle had been out overnight collecting data, and the image of a warship appeared in the first set of readings on Sunday morning.

To confirm exactly which ship they've found the crew will deploy the AUV for another eight-hour mission where it will capture high-resolution sonar images of the site.  The initial readings were captures using lower resolution sonar but the high-resolution scans will allow the crew to measure the ship and confirm its identity.

The find comes on the heels of the discovery of another Japanese carrier, the Kaga, last week.

'We read about the battles, we know what happened. But when you see these wrecks on the bottom of the ocean and everything, you kind of get a feel for what the real price is for war,' said Frank Thompson, a historian with the Naval History and Heritage Command in Washington, D.C., who is onboard the Petrel. 'You see the damage these things took, and it's humbling to watch some of the video of these vessels because they're war graves.'

Sonar images of the Kaga show the bow of the heavy carrier hit the seafloor at a high rate of speed, scattering debris and leaving an impact crater that looks as if an explosion occurred in the ocean.


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#2 BansheeOne

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 0803 AM

And now Akagi, too.

Researchers find second warship from WWII Battle of Midway

By CALEB Jones 34 minutes ago

MIDWAY ATOLL, Northwestern Hawaiian Islands (AP) A crew of deep-sea explorers and historians looking for lost World War II warships have found a second Japanese aircraft carrier that went down in the historic Battle of Midway.

Vulcan Inc.'s director of undersea operations Rob Kraft and Naval History and Heritage Command historian Frank Thompson reviewed high frequency sonar images of the warship Sunday and say that its dimensions and location mean it has to be the carrier Akagi.

The Akagi was found in the Papahanaumokuakea Marine National Monument resting in nearly 18,000 feet (5,490 meters) of water more than 1,300 miles (2,090 kilometers) northwest of Pearl Harbor.

The researchers used an autonomous underwater vehicle, or AUV, equipped with sonar to find the ship. The vehicle had been out overnight collecting data, and the image of a warship appeared in the first set of readings Sunday morning.

The first scan used low-resolution sonar, so the crew sent their AUV back to get higher-quality images.

"I'm sure of what were seeing here, the dimensions that were able to derive from this image (are) conclusive", Kraft said. "It can be none other than Akagi".

The vessel is sitting among a pile of debris and the ground around the warship is clearly disturbed by the impact of it hitting the seafloor.

"She's sitting upright on her keel, we can see the bow, we can see the stern clearly, you can see some of the gun emplacements on there, you can see that some of the flight deck is also torn up and missing so you can actually look right into where the flight deck would be", said Kraft.

The find comes on the heels of the discovery of another Japanese carrier, the Kaga, last week.

[...]


https://apnews.com/f...dfc3df0f3d36f77

Edited by BansheeOne, 21 October 2019 - 0835 AM.

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#3 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 0822 AM

I bet Ballard is pissed. He tried and failed to find them back in 1998, when he found the Hornet.

 

Hope they find the other 2. Not only for finding where the fallen are lying, the BDA on them is sure to be very interesting.


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#4 glenn239

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 0940 AM

Especially on Akagi.  With the ship upright and hangers exposed, the exact launch status of the carrier should be determinable.  Soryu's position is next on the list.  If Shattered Sword is correct, she will be far to the northeast of the other two.  

 

Hiryu is the least interesting (historically) of the four - we already have pictures of her just before she sank.

 

Hopefully, they'll have time to search the battlefield for the location of downed aircraft.  In particular, the locations of the torpedo bombers.


Edited by glenn239, 21 October 2019 - 0941 AM.

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#5 Ken Estes

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 0957 AM

Great!

 

I thought Ballard or these guys [formed by the late Paul Allen, of Seattle, cofounder of Microsoft] had a photo of a triple 25mm mount on some guntub similar to what IJN carriers had and later surmised from historical photos that it was Kaga, but weather conditions closed down the expedition before they could develop the contact. This was about 4-5 years ago?

 

There must not be very many wrecks of major warships left to discover?

 

Ooops!


Edited by Ken Estes, 21 October 2019 - 1007 AM.

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#6 RETAC21

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 1036 AM

I bet Ballard is pissed. He tried and failed to find them back in 1998, when he found the Hornet.

 

Hope they find the other 2. Not only for finding where the fallen are lying, the BDA on them is sure to be very interesting.

 

Hopefully Ballard would have found Yorktown near Midway...  :P

 

Kaga's piece was found back in 1999!

 

http://www.combinedf.../MidwayFind.htm


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#7 glenn239

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 1039 AM

Two scans of the Akagi,

 

https://www.facebook.com/rvpetrel/


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#8 alejandro_

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 1215 PM

I hope one day they find Shinano...


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#9 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 1222 PM

 

I bet Ballard is pissed. He tried and failed to find them back in 1998, when he found the Hornet.

 

Hope they find the other 2. Not only for finding where the fallen are lying, the BDA on them is sure to be very interesting.

 

Hopefully Ballard would have found Yorktown near Midway...  :P

 

Kaga's piece was found back in 1999!

 

http://www.combinedf.../MidwayFind.htm

 

 

Yeah, he probably found that one as well. :D

 

Sorry, blonde moment...


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#10 Nobu

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 1750 PM

Happy to hear this, with the caveat to the researchers of Vulcan Inc. that the Japanese Navy will take a dim view of any actions conducted by them that have not been cleared by the Japanese government, and that disturb Akagi's gravesite.


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#11 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 0129 AM

I dont think they would do anything thats going to penetrate the wreck. Though I guess if the hangar is open to the sky (sorta..) they would be kind of blurring the lines if they took a look at it. I think it unlikely any human remains will exist after this period of time however. But its the sentiment more than anything and I can understand that.


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#12 Captain Hurricane

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 0318 AM

Very interesting.....thanks for posting this Stuart.

 

I notice that the DM's banner headline states that 6 carriers were sunk during the Battle of Midway........but there were only 5 lost weren't there? :blink:  :ninja:  IJN lost Akagi, Kaga, Soryu and Hiryu while the USN lost Yorktown.

 

IJN heavy cruiser Mikuma and USN destroyer Hammann were also lost but they were not carriers by any stretch of the imagination....


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#13 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 0330 AM

I know of only 5, but as I say, im only aware of the battle in outline, not detail.


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#14 MiloMorai

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 0356 AM

Two scans of the Akagi,

 

https://www.facebook.com/rvpetrel/

Plus many more other ships. Thanks for the link.


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#15 glenn239

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 0718 AM

Sounds like the RV was damaged on the Kaga dive and no close ups of Akagi will be taken until 2020?


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#16 glenn239

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 0730 AM

Happy to hear this, with the caveat to the researchers of Vulcan Inc. that the Japanese Navy will take a dim view of any actions conducted by them that have not been cleared by the Japanese government, and that disturb Akagi's gravesite.

 

Hopefully as little as possible on that score.  

 

The general facts of the battle are known, but finer details could use enhancement, such as - if possible - the bombing locations of the 3 Japanese carriers during the morning attack.  The position of the US torpedo bombers should help reconstruct their attack.  Akagi's exact launch status - confirming whether she had a full deck strike (traditional IJN account) or decks empty (contemporary conclusion).   Whether or not a bomb hit Akagi's fantail, (the flight decks are destroyed but the 'ends' look intact).  The general outline of the battle requires that Kaga was to the south west, Akagi central, and Soryu, north easterly.  Fixing the bomb location (as opposed to sinking location) of Kaga might be possible from one SBD shot down in the attack.  Akagi's bomb location might be determinable if any aircraft were blown over the side.  Soryu's generally perhaps by way of the fact that she suffered almost instant massive explosions, so there should be debris. 


Edited by glenn239, 22 October 2019 - 0731 AM.

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