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China's Peaceful Rise

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#2461 a77

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 0417 AM

 

Russia has nuclear weapons, Ukraine doesn't. End of discussion. I agree with the post above that the argument is not only off topic but bordering on ludicrous.

 

 

By that logic, countries like Pakistan/India cant have border skirmisher becuse both have nuclar wepons (and enough, if not total anilate there opponent, to totaly cripple them) 


Edited by a77, 06 June 2019 - 0417 AM.

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#2462 Josh

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 0707 AM

And as a general rule they don't. The 'Kargil War' involved basically one remote mountain top that Pakistan had no hope of holding long term if the Indians seriously contested it. Other than that, the LOC sees some artillery fly one way or the other but not a major offensive that seeks to permanently occupy land. In fact Pakistan has moved its tactical nuclear weapons closer to the border as a potential counter to a punitive Indian invasion.


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#2463 RETAC21

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 0326 AM

And as a general rule they don't. The 'Kargil War' involved basically one remote mountain top that Pakistan had no hope of holding long term if the Indians seriously contested it. Other than that, the LOC sees some artillery fly one way or the other but not a major offensive that seeks to permanently occupy land. In fact Pakistan has moved its tactical nuclear weapons closer to the border as a potential counter to a punitive Indian invasion.

 

Kargil, like the Falklands, was a prestige move in which one side (Pakistan, Argentina) understimated the other (India, UK). The Pak Army didn't believe the Indians would be capable of standing off and bombing them to pieces.


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#2464 Roman Alymov

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 1150 AM

Kremlin Spokesman Says It's Wrong to Presume Russia, China Coordinating Efforts Against US

https://sputniknews....rMK_LggIGn_xDzI

 

Russia's Best Defense Against America's Pressure Strategy May Be China

The growing economic ties between Moscow and Beijing could prompt the Kremlin to harden its stance towards Washington.

https://nationalinte...s2ykTHF95AuEMuI


Edited by Roman Alymov, 09 June 2019 - 1150 AM.

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#2465 Roman Alymov

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 1233 PM

More on recent Rus-China relations

 


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#2466 Roman Alymov

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 1243 PM

CNN report from Rus-China border from 2012, when China was not US adversary


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#2467 BansheeOne

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 1609 PM

This is somewhat unusual, but I guess with China getting in more on UN missions (and running a Role 2 hospital in Gao, Mali where the German MINUSMA contingent is based, though the latter usually MEDEVACs anybody of theirs straight home) it makes sense.
 

China, Germany kick off joint medical military exercise
 
( Source: China Military  )         2016-October-20 17:31 
CHONGQING, October 20 (ChinaMil) -- The China-Germany joint medical military exercise, code-named "Combined Aid-2016", kicked off at a training base of the PLA Third Military Medical University in Chongqing, China, on the morning of October 20, 2016.
 
It is Chinas first joint medical military exercise with European militaries and the first such exercise held in China between Chinese military medical troops and foreign militaries.
 
The joint exercise takes the humanitarian medical rescue in earthquake disasters as its subject. Medical troops from China and Germany will establish a joint commanding center to organize the medical rescue operations in the designated area of the quake-hit country.
 
The Chinese participating troops are mostly from the PLA Third Military Medical University while the German troops of this exercise are mainly from the Rapid Medical Response Regiment of the Bundeswehr Medical Service.
 
In the next few days, the two sides will organize a series of activities including integrated training, desktop deduction, actual-troop exercise, exercise observation, academic exchange, and evaluation and summary.
 
The focus of the exercise is on earthquake first aid, mass treatment, medical airlift, epidemic prevention and elimination, joint command, self-protection and other subjects in order to improve emergency medical rescue and collaboration capabilities between China and Germany.
 
[...]


http://eng.mod.gov.c...ent_4750271.htm

The return visit of the Chinese side in Germany is currently going down. It's probably telling of the changes in international politics during the last three years, and particularly today's perception of China's global role, both domestically and in the West, what importance either seem to connect with a rather small exercise of a medical nature. Parts of both takes below seem rather exaggerated to me.

Chinese troops in first joint medical drill with major Nato power in Europe

Liu Zhen

Published: 10:30pm, 9 Jul, 2019

The Peoples Liberation Army is staging its first joint medical exercise with a major Nato power in Europe, as China steps up efforts to strengthen ties with European countries.

About 100 PLA medics are taking part in the two-week Combined Aid 2019 exercise at a base in Feldkirchen, southern Germany, alongside 120 medics and 120 support personnel from the German military, the Bundeswehr, Chinas defence ministry said on its Weibo account.

In addition to the medics, the PLA also sent a full array of field equipment including armoured ambulances to Germany for the drill, which began on Wednesday last week and finishes on July 17. It is the first time the PLA has shipped armoured vehicles to Europe.

[...]

Retired PLA colonel Yue Gang said that while the exercise may not have much significance in terms of combat ability, it was important for the international efforts of Chinas military.

Given that Nato has been suspicious and wary of Chinas military development, and this is a member of Nato, this breakthrough underscores the considerable trust-building taking place between Germany and China, and it may even set an example for others to follow, Yue said.

The PLA in the future will need to go abroad to protect Chinas overseas interests in countries along the Belt and Road Initiative, and if there could be some basic mutual trust and understanding with Nato forces, the risk of potential conflict could be greatly mitigated, he said, referring to Beijings vast scheme to build ports, roads and railways across Asian, African and European countries.

The Bundeswehr said the joint exercise was unique in the military cooperation of both states and creates the preconditions for being able to interact in medical terms in a combined UN scenario.

Chinese defence ministry spokesman Ren Guoqiang said earlier that the military relationship between China and Germany had been going well, with solid progress in areas such as joint exercises.

Wang Yiwei, an expert in European studies at Renmin University of China, said he was not surprised Germany had taken the lead among members of Nato the transatlantic security alliance to hold a joint drill with China, noting that Berlin had been wary of Washingtons America first policy.

As the leader of the EU, Germany has said that Europe should take charge of its own security, Wang said. It is also a brand new world security situation now, as both China and Europe would want to hedge their risks in dealing with the US.

[...]

https://www.scmp.com...ajor-nato-power

In a first, Chinese military deploys for medical drill with German forces in Europe

By JOHN VANDIVER | STARS AND STRIPES
Published: July 10, 2019

STUTTGART, Germany The Chinese army for the first time has deployed armored medical vehicles and personnel to Europe to conduct training with the German military, marking a groundbreaking foray into NATO territory.

The exercise, dubbed Combined Aid 2019 and involving about 100 Chinese Peoples Liberation Army medics, is a joint drill in the Bavarian town of Feldkirchen focused on responding to a simulated cholera outbreak.

The exercise takes place at a time of growing strains between the German government and the Trump administration over a range of issues, including Berlin's laggard defense spending and Germany's support for a natural gas pipeline from Russia.

[...]

Beijing is developing a global network of ports, railways and roads to advance its trade interests, including in Europe, as part of its Belt and Road campaign.

However, recent moves by China on NATOs turf have attracted U.S. scrutiny. At U.S. European Command headquarters in Stuttgart, officials have expressed concern about China purchasing stakes in numerous European ports, as well as Chinas polar silk road Arctic ambitions.

Jorge Benitez, a NATO expert with the Atlantic Council in Washington, said Germanys hosting of the Chinese military and the way it is playing in China gives the impression that NATO allies are disagreeing with the U.S. and seeking better relations with China.

The presence of the Chinese military in Germany for this exercise creates very bad optics for Germany, NATO and the U.S. and is a cheap propaganda victory for China, Benitez said.

German defense officials have played down such concerns, saying the exercise is about protecting civilians from disease and epidemics.

Chinas military brought new medical equipment for the drills, including a new generation field tent hospital system, tracked and wheeled armored ambulances and other gear to demonstrate the new developments and achievements of field ambulance technology vehicle made by the Chinese army, the defense ministry statement said.

The exercise, while small and not focused on combat, comes as Washington attempts to pressure its allies in Europe to take a tougher stance on China.

In recent months, it has intensified pressure on NATO members to avoid Chinas Huawei 5G telecom infrastructure, which American officials say poses a threat and would force Washington to cease certain types of information sharing.

But the U.S. also is trying to unite allies at a time when Berlin and Washington have been at odds on a range of issues, including German defense spending levels and trade disagreements. On Monday, a German government spokesman also rejected a request by the U.S. that Berlin send ground troops to Syria to provide relief for American forces that are part of the anti-ISIS coalition.

https://www.stripes....europe-1.589687
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#2468 Roman Alymov

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 0432 AM

67690330_173621753675063_313066532205966


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#2469 Chris Werb

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 1314 PM

 

This is somewhat unusual, but I guess with China getting in more on UN missions (and running a Role 2 hospital in Gao, Mali where the German MINUSMA contingent is based, though the latter usually MEDEVACs anybody of theirs straight home) it makes sense.
 

China, Germany kick off joint medical military exercise
 
( Source: China Military  )         2016-October-20 17:31 
CHONGQING, October 20 (ChinaMil) -- The China-Germany joint medical military exercise, code-named "Combined Aid-2016", kicked off at a training base of the PLA Third Military Medical University in Chongqing, China, on the morning of October 20, 2016.
 
It is Chinas first joint medical military exercise with European militaries and the first such exercise held in China between Chinese military medical troops and foreign militaries.
 
The joint exercise takes the humanitarian medical rescue in earthquake disasters as its subject. Medical troops from China and Germany will establish a joint commanding center to organize the medical rescue operations in the designated area of the quake-hit country.
 
The Chinese participating troops are mostly from the PLA Third Military Medical University while the German troops of this exercise are mainly from the Rapid Medical Response Regiment of the Bundeswehr Medical Service.
 
In the next few days, the two sides will organize a series of activities including integrated training, desktop deduction, actual-troop exercise, exercise observation, academic exchange, and evaluation and summary.
 
The focus of the exercise is on earthquake first aid, mass treatment, medical airlift, epidemic prevention and elimination, joint command, self-protection and other subjects in order to improve emergency medical rescue and collaboration capabilities between China and Germany.
 
[...]


http://eng.mod.gov.c...ent_4750271.htm

The return visit of the Chinese side in Germany is currently going down. It's probably telling of the changes in international politics during the last three years, and particularly today's perception of China's global role, both domestically and in the West, what importance either seem to connect with a rather small exercise of a medical nature. Parts of both takes below seem rather exaggerated to me.

Chinese troops in first joint medical drill with major Nato power in Europe

Liu Zhen

Published: 10:30pm, 9 Jul, 2019

The Peoples Liberation Army is staging its first joint medical exercise with a major Nato power in Europe, as China steps up efforts to strengthen ties with European countries.

About 100 PLA medics are taking part in the two-week Combined Aid 2019 exercise at a base in Feldkirchen, southern Germany, alongside 120 medics and 120 support personnel from the German military, the Bundeswehr, Chinas defence ministry said on its Weibo account.

In addition to the medics, the PLA also sent a full array of field equipment including armoured ambulances to Germany for the drill, which began on Wednesday last week and finishes on July 17. It is the first time the PLA has shipped armoured vehicles to Europe.

[...]

Retired PLA colonel Yue Gang said that while the exercise may not have much significance in terms of combat ability, it was important for the international efforts of Chinas military.

Given that Nato has been suspicious and wary of Chinas military development, and this is a member of Nato, this breakthrough underscores the considerable trust-building taking place between Germany and China, and it may even set an example for others to follow, Yue said.

The PLA in the future will need to go abroad to protect Chinas overseas interests in countries along the Belt and Road Initiative, and if there could be some basic mutual trust and understanding with Nato forces, the risk of potential conflict could be greatly mitigated, he said, referring to Beijings vast scheme to build ports, roads and railways across Asian, African and European countries.

The Bundeswehr said the joint exercise was unique in the military cooperation of both states and creates the preconditions for being able to interact in medical terms in a combined UN scenario.

Chinese defence ministry spokesman Ren Guoqiang said earlier that the military relationship between China and Germany had been going well, with solid progress in areas such as joint exercises.

Wang Yiwei, an expert in European studies at Renmin University of China, said he was not surprised Germany had taken the lead among members of Nato the transatlantic security alliance to hold a joint drill with China, noting that Berlin had been wary of Washingtons America first policy.

As the leader of the EU, Germany has said that Europe should take charge of its own security, Wang said. It is also a brand new world security situation now, as both China and Europe would want to hedge their risks in dealing with the US.

[...]

https://www.scmp.com...ajor-nato-power


The exercise, dubbed Combined Aid 2019 and involving about 100 Chinese Peoples Liberation Army medics, is a joint drill in the Bavarian town of Feldkirchen focused on responding to a simulated cholera outbreak.

 

The cholera outbreak probably started at Feldkirchen's equivalent of our local Chinese takeaway.


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#2470 Roman Alymov

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 1706 PM


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#2471 Chris Werb

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 1735 PM

Roman, what are your thoughts on the Chinese buying up, or otherwise moving into and largely taking over economic sectors in your extreme far east. Farming for example?


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#2472 Tim the Tank Nut

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 1356 PM

wasn't there a saying in Russia:

Visit China before it visits you?

 

Anyone who thinks that China is going to stop with Hong Kong, Taiwan, the Spratleys and the Philippines is deluded


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#2473 Josh

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 1903 PM

Anyone who thinks China is going to try to annex territory from one of the top two nuclear powers in the world is probably equally inaccurate.


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#2474 Tim the Tank Nut

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 0721 AM

we've been through that and I am willing to accept that Russian use of nuclear weapons on Russian soil makes the Chinese position much more difficult but I expect China's play to be more asymmetric. 

China's next step vis a vis Russian is to offer better economic opportunity to Far Eastern Russia while beginning to destabilize the portions of Russian gov't in that area.

The Chinese are bent on taking whatever they can, in whatever way possible


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#2475 KV7

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 0831 AM

More fantastical analysis. China has ambitions but they do not involve territorial acquisitions beyond the longstanding reunification objective.


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#2476 Josh

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 0946 AM

There's nothing of value in Eastern Russia that the Chinese couldn't get elsewhere or simply buy from the Russians. They may build infrastructure to the region to facilitate resource extraction in their direction, with the usual lopsided loans that force the host country to yield later political benefits or be foreclosed on, but the sovereignty of Russian territory will hold for at least as long as Putin is alive.


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#2477 a77

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 0007 AM

67690330_173621753675063_313066532205966

 

Glad you finaly see that Russia is the junior client state to China.... and we all know how dictatorships use and abuse there client state.


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#2478 Chris Werb

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 0245 AM

That trait is not exclusive to dictatorships.
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#2479 Roman Alymov

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 1128 AM

 

67690330_173621753675063_313066532205966

 

Glad you finaly see that Russia is the junior client state to China.... and we all know how dictatorships use and abuse there client state.

 

Who is "you" here - The Economist editor? This cover page fully represent  typical  Western  opinion, while opinion in Russia (and, as article below clearly demonstrate, in China) is different

https://www.scmp.com...rrand-trump-try

As China and Russia draw closer, it would be a fool’s errand for Trump to try to separate them

    Sino-Russian rapprochement is at an all-time high, and the splintering West can forget about driving a wedge between them. Beijing owes Moscow a debt of gratitude, and it is the US that has lumped China and Russia together as its rivals

 

 

And if pictoral representation needed, something like this is more or less the case

3208_8cdcd42dcac31d0d91d017.jpg


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#2480 Roman Alymov

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 1144 AM

wasn't there a saying in Russia:

Visit China before it visits you?

 

I do not remember such saying in Russian - probably it is one of this "In Soviet Russia...." fake sayings created by nimble Russian migrants to please Western audience by saying it something they want to hear (up to the point of being  willing to pay for). Actually you made me think for some time about Russian sayings about China/Chinese - and i was unable to find anything in my top of mind except "Chinese craftsmanship" (Китайский труд) usually describing object that is very  hard-to-make, time-consuming but useless. Probably this saying is dating back to early years of XX century when Chinese were selling very fine wooden models of boats and temples for very little money....
   I think Russian collective thinking is still living in realities of final years of USSR, when economy of China was smaller than economy of Soviet Ukraine alone.


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