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#321 DougRichards

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 0437 AM

What one did West Germany build? I remember the 'missile with a starfighter on it' system, but not an actual vstol fighter. They were working on a light transport powered by pegasus engines that looked promising.

 

France, I seem to recall that had a system based on a Mirage III?

re the frogs (in this case the description is accurate as FROG models were originally balsa models noted as 'flies right off the ground')

 

https://en.wikipedia...ult_Mirage_IIIV

 

regarding the kr__ts....

 

Deutsland did produce the

 

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/EWR_VJ_101

 

Sort of a VTOL F104

 

but going back futher:

 

The Natter comes to mind.   https://en.wikipedia...i/Bachem_Ba_349

 

A rocket powered equivalent to the

 

Lockheed Salmon

 

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Lockheed_XFV

 

and the Pogo

 

https://en.wikipedia...onvair_XFY_Pogo

 

There was also the

 

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Vought_XF5U

 

that even if not truly 'vtol' would have certainly been able to be flown off a very short flight deck without  a catapult  (catapult?  strange term as it referred to an classic era 'shield piecing crossbow rather than another form of projector,,,)



#322 BansheeOne

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 0507 AM

regarding the kr__ts....

 

Deutsland did produce the

 

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/EWR_VJ_101

 

Sort of a VTOL F104

 

There was also the more Harrier-like VFW VAK 191 B, albeit intended to be transsonic and the swiveling nozzles being supported by two separate lift engines.

 

vak-191.2017-04-07-15-58-00.jpg

 

vak191-3.gif



#323 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 0550 AM

There was a really interesting Heinkel aircraft in 'IL2 1946' which was a rotary fan lift engine so the aircraft took off vertically, then the pilot pushed over and used it in flight. Kinda reminicent of the Convair Pogo, except in this case the fan was mid bodied. It was apparently based on a real Heinkel Concept from the 1940s, but like the Pogo they would have a hell of a problem transitioning back into vertical flight and landing it.

 

I guess the point is, there is a lot of companies that have done it, but only one that really made it work. F35 I think the jury still seems to be out, at least in American minds. :D



#324 Panzermann

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 0641 AM



There was a really interesting Heinkel aircraft in 'IL2 1946' which was a rotary fan lift engine so the aircraft took off vertically, then the pilot pushed over and used it in flight. Kinda reminicent of the Convair Pogo, except in this case the fan was mid bodied. It was apparently based on a real Heinkel Concept from the 1940s, but like the Pogo they would have a hell of a problem transitioning back into vertical flight and landing it.[/quote]

 

with this concept the landing is the tricky part. Hence nobody has built one in earnest.

 

[quote]

I guess the point is, there is a lot of companies that have done it, but only one that really made it work. F35 I think the jury still seems to be out, at least in American minds. :D

 

there was also the Dornier Do-31 with lift fans at the end of the wings:

 

640px-Dornier_Do_31_in_1968.jpg

 

 

 

But as usual only the Brits were stubborn enough to put an eccentric concept into production. ;)



#325 DougRichards

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 0459 AM

 



There was a really interesting Heinkel aircraft in 'IL2 1946' which was a rotary fan lift engine so the aircraft took off vertically, then the pilot pushed over and used it in flight. Kinda reminicent of the Convair Pogo, except in this case the fan was mid bodied. It was apparently based on a real Heinkel Concept from the 1940s, but like the Pogo they would have a hell of a problem transitioning back into vertical flight and landing it.[/quote]

 

with this concept the landing is the tricky part. Hence nobody has built one in earnest.

 

[quote]

I guess the point is, there is a lot of companies that have done it, but only one that really made it work. F35 I think the jury still seems to be out, at least in American minds. :D

 

there was also the Dornier Do-31 with lift fans at the end of the wings:

 

640px-Dornier_Do_31_in_1968.jpg

 

 

 

But as usual only the Brits were stubborn enough to put an eccentric concept into production. ;)

 

Problem was: if one powerplant failed.............. the aircraft was doomed.

 

The P1127 and it's derivatives had just the one powerplant so that if it failed the pilot could still eject basically upwards.

 

The Osprey has its rotors linked so even if one side failed there will be some redundancy.  That is not easy with a turbofan.



#326 DougRichards

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 0501 AM

There was a really interesting Heinkel aircraft in 'IL2 1946' which was a rotary fan lift engine so the aircraft took off vertically, then the pilot pushed over and used it in flight. Kinda reminicent of the Convair Pogo, except in this case the fan was mid bodied. It was apparently based on a real Heinkel Concept from the 1940s, but like the Pogo they would have a hell of a problem transitioning back into vertical flight and landing it.

 

I guess the point is, there is a lot of companies that have done it, but only one that really made it work. F35 I think the jury still seems to be out, at least in American minds. :D

 

you mean this?

 

https://en.wikipedia.../Heinkel_Lerche



#327 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 0654 AM

Thats the puppy. Personally I think they would have done better to put more time into the Flying Saucer. :)



#328 shep854

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 1459 PM

Thats the puppy. Personally I think they would have done better to put more time into the Flying Saucer. :)

And be forced to admit to the Nazi base on the Moon??



#329 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 1126 AM

Osprey did a book on that, so it must be true. :)

https://ospreypublis...m/nazi-moonbase



#330 Chris Werb

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 1702 PM

Osprey did a book on that, so it must be true. :)

https://ospreypublis...m/nazi-moonbase

 

ROTFLMAO!!!!!



#331 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 0230 AM

Its got some really great illustrations in it, such as this, of the Nazi Antarctic base.

http://img11.deviant...hdt-da2ajpb.jpg

 

 

But my absolute favourite is from someone elses website.

1617952071505abf2342jd1.jpg



#332 Josh

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 0326 AM

If the British were secretly on the other side of the moon they'd just force you to drink their the most recent batch of zero G tea. :)

I got moved to Scotland and accidentally caught fire, in the literal sense (electric heater in Scotland that I backed into with second degree burns in '78; and I'm sure parachute nylon is great for our fliers but it dosn't make a good infant outfit...when it melts, it sticks to kids like Napalm...but I have liked tea ever since (despite the burning - lots of milk?).

In fact I almost want to open a thread with Chris and Stuart as to the proper preparation of Tea, as a filthy non commonwealth er who came up with my own method. That said, I'm sure Trump et al 'Tea' will be better than yours!

Cheers,
Josh

#333 Charles

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 1614 PM

If the British were secretly on the other side of the moon they'd just force you to drink their the most recent batch of zero G tea. :)I got moved to Scotland and accidentally caught fire, in the literal sense (electric heater in Scotland that I backed into with second degree burns in '78; and I'm sure parachute nylon is great for our fliers but it dosn't make a good infant outfit...when it melts, it sticks to kids like Napalm...but I have liked tea ever since (despite the burning - lots of milk?).In fact I almost want to open a thread with Chris and Stuart as to the proper preparation of Tea, as a filthy non commonwealth er who came up with my own method. That said, I'm sure Trump et al 'Tea' will be better than yours!Cheers,Josh

Just do not get our Indian, Chinese or Russian brethren arguing on who developed the art of drinking tea first :).

Like beer, wine and whisky, there are many different types, each with a taste unique to itself.

Josh, ensure your water is hot and add milk (should you need to) afterwards.

Charles

Edited by Charles, 27 October 2017 - 1615 PM.


#334 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 0257 AM

The art of tea making is, get someone else to make it for you. Then you can bitch endlessly how they get it wrong and maintain the aura of invincibility, at least as far as tea making is concerned.

 

Well thats how I do it, but opinions vary of course.:)






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