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Cold War US Army upgrades history M60 M1 Abrams M113

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#61 Nikolas93TS

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 1418 PM

Just looking at M60 vs T-62: Cold War Combatants 1956-92 by Lon Nordeen and David Isby.

Book says US Army initially brought enough Blazer sets to equip two battalions in Korea.Once those battalions transited to M1,M60s with ERA were given to Marines.
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#62 Damian

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 0711 AM

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USMC M1A1's receive ILWS (Improved Loaders Weapon Station) which is remotely controlled. Have day and thermal sights, ammo capacity 600 rounds.

Edited by Damian, 27 January 2013 - 0712 AM.

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#63 Panzermann

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 0940 AM

Now that makes two remote weapon stations on the US Marines' M1 A1 for the commander and the loader . The driver should get one, too. ;)

that's mounted on the hole in the roof intended for the A2 TC periscope, isn't it?

Is this weapon station usable from the TC seat in case the loader is not available?
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#64 Damian

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 0956 AM

that's mounted on the hole in the roof intended for the A2 TC periscope, isn't it?


Seems so.

Is this weapon station usable from the TC seat in case the loader is not available?


I don't know, and I doubt it, in M1A2SEP TC CROWS also seems to be only operated by TC.

However this seems to be more issue of software than hardware, so with some modifications, such capability might be possible. However I would not expect it before ECP1 modernization that will solve problems with nearly expired SWaP-C limit.
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#65 Damian

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 1506 PM

http://mdswebmaster....t=441&width=691

A real rarity, Meggitt Company Compact Autoloader for M1 Abrams series, Autoloader hold 34 rounds (for comparision the AZ autoloader in T-72/T-90 series as well as Al Khalid and Chinese tanks hold 22 rounds, MZ autoloader in T-64, T-80 and T-84 holds 28 rounds and autoloader based on the one used in Leclerc holds 22 rounds, used also in South Korean K2 and Japanese Type 90 and probably also Type 10), fits inside the currently existing space inside turret bustle, is completely isolated from crew, and still permitts to have a 4th crewmember that can now perform other tasks than loading the main gun.

As a interesting side note, Germans were also interested in this autoloader for Leopard 2, at least drawing from Kampfapnzer heute und morgen sugests so.

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#66 methos

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 1542 PM

As a interesting side note, Germans were also interested in this autoloader for Leopard 2, at least drawing from Kampfapnzer heute und morgen sugests so.


It's not the Megitt autoloader in this CGI. The fourth crew member had to be eliminated. It is just a "band type" autoloader like the Megitt Compact Autoloader, the Leclerc's autoloader or even both autoloaders for the MBT-70.
As far as they were "interested": It is just a company proposal. There have been numerous different proposals for autoloaders on the Leopard 2.

Edited by methos, 06 February 2013 - 1545 PM.

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#67 Max H

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 1554 PM

Autoloader hold 34 rounds


Impressive, they managed to fit 34 rounds and the band autoloader system in the volume currently occupied by 34 rounds
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#68 Damian

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 1607 PM

Max H.

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This is how they done that, look how ammunition cassettes are placed.

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Compare to how ammunition cassettes are placed in Leclerc autoloader.

Meggitt is a silent leader in autoloader designing, they were the ones that designed 44 rounds capacity autoloader for TTB technology demonstrator or 36 rounds capacity autoloader called FASTDRAW the predecesor of that one on the video I posted, also designed for M1.

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Edited by Damian, 06 February 2013 - 1609 PM.

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#69 methos

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 1616 PM

Damian, do you notice that the Leclerc's autoloader - in order to deal with the reduced turret frontal profile - cannot be made bigger? The Leclerc has a smaller turret height (expect for the gun bulge) and thus you couldn't even store more than ~24 rounds into the turret bustle without any autoloader. The Megitt autoloader only manages to store so much ammunition, because of it's size.
Just because they can store so many rounds in their autoloaders (a result of their increased size), they are by no means more advanced. They are from the same general layout type which was already available in the late 1960s. If Megitt designed an autoloader for the Leclerc, it probably wouldn't allow using more ammunition as the current Leclerc's autoloader can hold. In the same manner if NEXTER designed an autoloader for the M1, they probably also would create one allowing to store ~34 rounds.

Edited by methos, 06 February 2013 - 1617 PM.

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#70 Damian

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 1634 PM

Not nececary, in case of Leclerc, you could heighten the bustle only, trade off might be bigger vurnablity but overall I would preffer to have more ammunition ready to use than less.

PS. I also seen somewhere video that show the ability of Meggitt autoloaders to also unload the main gun, I think that the one designed for M1202 MCS had such ability.

Edited by Damian, 06 February 2013 - 1637 PM.

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#71 JW Collins

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 0321 AM

I thought Marine Corp M1A1s had that missile countermeasure device (I can't remember the designation at the moment) where the CITV on the M1A2 goes. If this remote controlled loaders MG goes there, does that mean they are getting rid of the MCD?
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#72 Damian

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 0538 AM

It is uncertain how loaders RWS will look in the end, also it is still modular, so you can use one or another depending on needs.
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#73 Jim Warford

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 0946 AM

Here's a pamphlet on the USMC's ILWS...

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#74 Damian

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 1057 AM

The one in presentation above seems to be installed closer to the loaders hatch not on the CITV installation mount.

Pity we do not have a completely photo of this RWS fielded on tanks to see how exactly it looks like.
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#75 DKTanker

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 1605 PM

The one in presentation above seems to be installed closer to the loaders hatch not on the CITV installation mount.

Pity we do not have a completely photo of this RWS fielded on tanks to see how exactly it looks like.

The RWS in the presentation appears to show the unit attached to the skate ring around the loaders hatch.

You posted a picture of a RWS mounted directly to the CITV mount.
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#76 JW Collins

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 1540 PM

Hasn't some Eastern European company offered a setup like that for a few different CITV-type systems? With a .50 cal or 7.62mm MG right above the optics?

When you consider the soft-kill and hard-kill active defense systems we will eventually want to integrate, it seems like we are going to want to start combining some of these systems to save space in the near future.
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#77 Max H

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 1839 PM

Hasn't some Eastern European company offered a setup like that for a few different CITV-type systems? With a .50 cal or 7.62mm MG right above the optics?

When you consider the soft-kill and hard-kill active defense systems we will eventually want to integrate, it seems like we are going to want to start combining some of these systems to save space in the near future.


Like the one on the T-90MS?
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#78 JW Collins

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 2236 PM

Similar but I think I saw it on the CV120T and some other vehicles.
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#79 Mr King

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 0356 AM

Similar but I think I saw it on the CV120T and some other vehicles.


?
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#80 Tomas Hoting

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 1511 PM

Similar but I think I saw it on the CV120T and some other vehicles.


Saab Trackfire RWS on a CV90120-T:

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The Saab Trackfire RWS (or the BAE Systems Bofors LEMUR) can also be configured to be used as a commander’s panoramic sight.
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