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"surprising" Omissions In National Armo(U)Ries


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#41 R011

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 2159 PM

What's a "moto video"?

MPs, boarding parties, and special forces use SiGs. Apparently there is going to be an emergency interim buy to replace about half the Brownings while a competition to replace everything is conducted.

Edited by R011, 30 June 2019 - 2202 PM.

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#42 Simon Tan

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 0311 AM

Motivational video. Lots of hoo-ah etc. ETA:- Buy Grokk


Edited by Simon Tan, 01 July 2019 - 0311 AM.

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#43 wendist

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 0508 AM

 

Is it that the Swedish Army doesn't want it or that the government doesn't want to pay to reinstate it?

 

Well. If the army had them, they would still use them,

but if they have to get new ATGM's, they seem to prefer a new 3rd generation system like the Eurospike, MMP or Javelin.

 

Not that they have the money to get a new missile system anyway.

 

I would agree with that in general but what the army prefers and what they are ready to accept are two very different things. Today it was announced that a new SAM system is activated on the island of Gotland, which is nice since they really need some decent air defence units there. But it's really an old SAAB manufactured system, the RBS-23 Bamse, from the mid 90-s and it's probably only a single battery with two or three launch units. We have both IRIS-T and Patriot in the pipe line but none of those will be operational for some time and so the army have to make do with whatever they can get their hands on. I would not be particularly surprised if it was announced tomorrow that we are reactivating the BILL-2 ATGM as well, at least as a stop gap solution.


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#44 bojan

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 0550 AM

...but you don't have to be exposed to direct return fire with man in the loop either since it uses fiber optic datalink....

 

You don't have to be exposed with Sagger either since it can:

- be launched remotely (12m IIRC)

- sight is a periscopic one, and you can just have sight head peak behind obstacle:

AT-3_sagger_9K11_Malyutka_anti-tank_miss


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#45 Chris Werb

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 0749 AM

 

. I would not be particularly surprised if it was announced tomorrow that we are reactivating the BILL-2 ATGM as well, at least as a stop gap solution.

 

 

Except that I believe you sold them all to Saudi Arabia. :(


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#46 Chris Werb

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 0751 AM

 

...but you don't have to be exposed to direct return fire with man in the loop either since it uses fiber optic datalink....

 

You don't have to be exposed with Sagger either since it can:

- be launched remotely (12m IIRC)

- sight is a periscopic one, and you can just have sight head peak behind obstacle:

AT-3_sagger_9K11_Malyutka_anti-tank_miss

 

 

This is simulated well (as a later SACLOS variant) in Steel Beasts. SB is basically ATGW heaven - simulating, in dismounted form, TOW, MILAN, BILL-2, Javelin, Sagger, Spike etc with various different generations of missile. The only thing I don't think it simulates is the facility where you can fire an ATGM in line of sight mode then duck down slightly for the fiber optic update - the update mode works, but you would remain exposed. It's an awful lot of fun though. Note this shows 4.0 terrain, weather, snow etc. Not the latest 4.1 release, due out soon.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=AZKRiRmCyds


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#47 bojan

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 0912 AM

SACLOS ATGMs on stationary target are dead simple. Only problems arise with firing at perpendicular moving target at near max range, since you can run out of wire if you track a target from a beginning. That is  solved by taking semi-lead, and firing ATGM in the "interception course".

One night playing on AT-4 Spigot simulator (that looks basically like ZX Spectrum game) gave me 97% hits on stationary and ~80% hits on moving targets.


Edited by bojan, 01 July 2019 - 0913 AM.

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#48 Chris Werb

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 0916 AM

SACLOS ATGMs on stationary target are dead simple. Only problems arise with firing at perpendicular moving target at near max range, since you can run out of wire if you track a target from a beginning. That is  solved by taking semi-lead, and firing ATGM in the "interception course".

One night playing on AT-4 Spigot simulator (that looks basically like ZX Spectrum game) gave me 97% hits on stationary and ~80% hits on moving targets.

 

There is also the problem of how long the target will be exposed between pieces of cover vs how far away it is. Our very own Hans did a post on the SB forum explaining how, as a Swedish TOW troop commander, he would create a graphical range fan each time his launcher took up position. I think it's still available as a tutorial on SB.


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#49 bojan

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 1020 AM

Oh yes, real work of ATGM team and platoon is creating "fire/don't fire" zones/ and measuring all possible distances in order to know where and when it can engage moving targets. But that was too advanced for a simulator from 1974-75... At least it was not a Sagger simulator, which was played at b/w TV from the '60s and you had to keep a dot (missile) between moving (target) and stationary (launcher) dots.

 

*If you see two bayonets stuck in the ground with a piece of string between at ATGM position you know it is no-fire zone.


Edited by bojan, 01 July 2019 - 1023 AM.

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#50 EchoFiveMike

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 1653 PM

Range cards and aiming/limiting stakes are part and parcel of every DF crew served weapon. 

 

Surprising/disgusting omissions for USG.

 

40mm HE-frag grenade.  Effective individual LAW, there was supposed to be Predator, IIRC, I actually have a user manual somewhere.  USMC cluster-effing the medium indirect fire weapon, having turned the 120mm rifled mortar into a world class goat screw.  S/F....Ken M


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#51 Olof Larsson

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 1710 PM

 

 

Is it that the Swedish Army doesn't want it or that the government doesn't want to pay to reinstate it?

 

Well. If the army had them, they would still use them,

but if they have to get new ATGM's, they seem to prefer a new 3rd generation system like the Eurospike, MMP or Javelin.

 

Not that they have the money to get a new missile system anyway.

 

 

Not sure about Javelin - the lack of fire and update and the single mode sensor are quite limiting compared to the latest Spikes and MMP. Norway are already looking to replace theirs and France only purchased Javelin as a stop-gap.

 

 

Yes the MMP and Spike are clearly the better weapons. Especially in a country as forested as Sweden and with so few roads and so many waterways, light infantry/jägers, would be quite able to launch missiles outside of LOS, with forward observers, hand held UAV.s, or good old accustic observation against road intersections, bridges, where the enemy is suspected to be. That said, Spike might be impossible for political reasons and MMP is french, and that doesn't help either.


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#52 bd1

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 1213 PM

i somehow doubt that given the price and quantity availible of modern NLOS ATGM anybody will launch them to ´´suspected enemy areas´´, update after launch or not.  in any bit lenghtier conflict with anyone over the level of ISIS-pick-up-convoy , anyway. 


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#53 Stargrunt6

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 1726 PM

What's a "moto video"?

.


Why, this!

https://youtu.be/xDMq9qBpNZM
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#54 R011

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 2349 PM

The imitation spray and pray was the best part,


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#55 Chris Werb

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 0451 AM

That was assault rifle "air guitar".


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#56 Stargrunt6

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 0709 AM

😁

Reminds me of Ugandan action movies, but without the irony and winking.
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#57 Mighty_Zuk

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 0657 AM

Most of NATO - mobile medium range air defenses.

C-RAM on any level.

Any ABM that isn't solely for the terminal stage.
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