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Black Project Afv's


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#1 Mr King

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 1908 PM

I don't expect this post to really go anywhere and is a bit of a wankfest on my part, but I am curious about any AFV's or other ground vehicles that were developed and deployed secretly that later were brought into the public light. Three examples I can think of off the top of my head are the original tanks, canal defense light, and the Israeli Pereh missile carrier. I am mainly interested in post war vehicles and variants. 

 

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#2 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 0127 AM

DD?

 

The 183mm Tank Destroyer seems to have been kept fairly quiet. Probably didnt want anyone in Parliament to ask any questions about it. :D


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#3 Panzermann

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 0443 AM

DD?

 

The 183mm Tank Destroyer seems to have been kept fairly quiet. Probably didnt want anyone in Parliament to ask any questions about it. :D

 

Hobart's Funnies were certainly kept secret. But post WW2 I can only think of projects that went nowhere, or details of tanks like the fence on the Strv103 that were kept secret.


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#4 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 0651 AM

I guess the soviet ones should be included. I found the first photo of a T80 in one of the USMLM reports, initially of just a wheel under a tarp. it was like one of those photographs you get at a car show when they dont quite want to unveil it yet. :D


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#5 Panzermann

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 1042 AM

I guess the soviet ones should be included. I found the first photo of a T80 in one of the USMLM reports, initially of just a wheel under a tarp. it was like one of those photographs you get at a car show when they dont quite want to unveil it yet. :D

 

Pretty similar situation, really.


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#6 Jim Warford

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 2206 PM

Well...then there's the SU-122-54!    :)

 

1949: development starts

1954: adopted by the Soviet Army

1955: first vehicles delivered

1955-1957: in production

1958: first reported at the SECRET level

1969: first (and maybe only) photo published at the SECRET level

1996: first official recognition of the SU-122-54 at the unclassified level (41 years after delivery to the Soviet Army) 

 

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#7 Ken Estes

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 0236 AM

US heavy tank development in the 1950s used 155mm firing APC and HEAT as a possible guarantee vs Soviet tanks not yet known. There were also projects for laser RF, nuclear engines, glass and other laminate armor, auto loaders, variable suspensions and so forth. As in the 1930s, US Ordnance preferred to work on advanced components vice complete tank designs.


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#8 Chris Werb

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Posted 03 August 2019 - 1851 PM

Ken, I remember reading an interview in a late 1950s Flight magazine with a senior USArmy officer anticipating nuclear rifle grenades to be issued to individual infantrymen in the not too distant future.
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#9 R011

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Posted 03 August 2019 - 1907 PM

Starfleet had a light mortar with nuclear* rounds!


* or antimatter or something like that.
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#10 Mr King

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Posted 03 August 2019 - 1921 PM

In the not so distant future 

 

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#11 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 0215 AM

Ken, I remember reading an interview in a late 1950s Flight magazine with a senior USArmy officer anticipating nuclear rifle grenades to be issued to individual infantrymen in the not too distant future.

 

I remember reading a book written by Arthur C Clarke 30 years ago (well a compendium headed by him anyway) predicting by July 20th 2019 we would have had a third world war, and all the soldiers, in danger of being shredded by NBC weapons, would be incapable of ever going outside their vehicles. Even infantry sections would have to fight from inside.

 

Even smart guys will believe the strangest things. :D


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 04 August 2019 - 0215 AM.

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#12 Ken Estes

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 0244 AM

Ken, I remember reading an interview in a late 1950s Flight magazine with a senior USArmy officer anticipating nuclear rifle grenades to be issued to individual infantrymen in the not too distant future.

 

So it was, Chris, with the Davy Crockett spigot mortar, you had a granate roughly the size of a regulation US softball, 12" circumference. Its inventor was on the university lecture circuit in 1983 and told the story of how a few of the scientists wondered just how small a nuc they could do, amidst all the miniaturization projects then ongoing. When they showed it to the general, he immediately told them to weaponize it. President Kennedy was horrified when told that an infantry battalion commander had its release authority, so he ordered it removed from service. 

 

The blast and radiation effects were considered dangerous within its firing range....


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#13 JWB

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 1030 AM

Micronukes are very dirty.


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#14 DougRichards

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 0226 AM

 

Ken, I remember reading an interview in a late 1950s Flight magazine with a senior USArmy officer anticipating nuclear rifle grenades to be issued to individual infantrymen in the not too distant future.

 

I remember reading a book written by Arthur C Clarke 30 years ago (well a compendium headed by him anyway) predicting by July 20th 2019 we would have had a third world war, and all the soldiers, in danger of being shredded by NBC weapons, would be incapable of ever going outside their vehicles. Even infantry sections would have to fight from inside.

 

Even smart guys will believe the strangest things. :D

 

 

The original Blade Runner was set in 2019.....


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#15 DougRichards

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 0227 AM

Starfleet had a light mortar with nuclear* rounds!


* or antimatter or something like that.

 

If you eat pasta and then eat ante pasta will you stay hungry?


Edited by DougRichards, 05 August 2019 - 0425 AM.

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#16 KV7

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 0257 AM

What is the yield on the nuclear rounds for M-240 ? IIRC it was ~2 kt or for the original round but the later one was somewhat more powerful. 


Edited by KV7, 05 August 2019 - 0309 AM.

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#17 Inhapi

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 0516 AM

What about the US nuclear tank concepts ? Did the USSR have something similar that has turned up since 1991 ? (apart from mobile power stations ?)


Edited by Inhapi, 05 August 2019 - 0516 AM.

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#18 Panzermann

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 0717 AM

 

Ken, I remember reading an interview in a late 1950s Flight magazine with a senior USArmy officer anticipating nuclear rifle grenades to be issued to individual infantrymen in the not too distant future.

 

I remember reading a book written by Arthur C Clarke 30 years ago (well a compendium headed by him anyway) predicting by July 20th 2019 we would have had a third world war, and all the soldiers, in danger of being shredded by NBC weapons, would be incapable of ever going outside their vehicles. Even infantry sections would have to fight from inside.

 

Even smart guys will believe the strangest things. :D

 

 

This scenario is what many cold war AFVs were developed for. Hence the ports on the sides of Marder, Bradley, BMP1/2, BTR-60/70/80 series etc., NBC protection filters and pverpressure systems in the vehicles etc etc.


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#19 Hakka

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 0828 AM

In the BTR-60 and BTR-70, the firing ports are not designed to maintain an air seal. They're just portholes in the armour.
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#20 Stefan Kotsch

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 0831 AM

The BTR-70 are also equipped with a filter ventilation device with NBC filter. When operating the device an overpressure is generated in the interior. The BTR-60PB is quipped with a dust filter ventilation device without, as far as I know, NBC filter.

 

The firing ports do not have (and other) to be 100+ percent sealed. The overpressure inside is sufficient to prevent gases/dust and so "nbc things" from entering through the ports and other small (!) holes.

 

But, a flat rubber seal is at the firing ports, if I remember correctly. Because the BTR able to swim. That would be a leak on these many firing ports a problem.


Edited by Stefan Kotsch, 07 August 2019 - 0835 AM.

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