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MidwayŚ77 Years Ago, Today.


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#501 JasonJ

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 1737 PM

What's more surprising is the mixing of ally justice feeling with hindsight view that speaks in bias automatically set to be contray. The same argument could be pointed the other way had history played differently.

 
You sure about that? show me the US invading Manchuria in 1931 using a false flag operation, and then going for the rest of the country. Show me the US officers running wages to see who cuts more Japanese heads, or the routine execution and abuse of PoWs, because, according to you, the same arguments could be pointed the other way...

I've already posted. Quit assuming and start reading.
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#502 nitflegal

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 2133 PM

 

 

A third device was going to be ready in theatre before the end of August.
They expected to have nine devices by the end of September and continue production at a starting rate of three per month.

The Japanese surrender allowed the US to halt production and build a safer and more efficient production line.

Not to be contrary (and taken with a grain of salt since I'm relying on experts rather than being one!) but I think there are some doubts as to being able to achieve that.  I attended a talk with Captain Sweeney years ago and he made a an interesting comment about there being far more debate about returning with a bomb than published because if Hiroshima didn't cause a surrender their bomb would "expire" and it was uncertain when they would get a replacement to drop.  That didn't make a lot of sense until reading Dr. Curatola's book years later and having a chance to hear him speak and the program was in a lot more uncertain state than I had ever read.  Even before it fell to crap at the end of the war they were really not at a technical level to do what they were doing, they were persevering by brute force and effort and not an insignificant amount of risk.  Apparently internally there was a lot of doubt that they would get anywhere close to those production levels and were encouraging backing off on nukes for Downfall as much as possible without bluntly stating "you might not have them".  

 

Was this the book you refer to?

https://www.archives...2016/16-10.html

I might get that, looks like my cup of tea.

 

That's the one.  Its very interesting and engagingly written.  He also has a great hour long talk at the Kansas library on the book on youtube.


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#503 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 0258 AM

Thanks, Ill listen to that. Im kind of running out of podcasts to listen to whilst I work.


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#504 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 0746 AM

That was pretty good. He also does a number of different lectures, and the one on Strategic bombing was also pretty good.


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#505 RETAC21

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 1256 PM

 

 

What's more surprising is the mixing of ally justice feeling with hindsight view that speaks in bias automatically set to be contray. The same argument could be pointed the other way had history played differently.

 
You sure about that? show me the US invading Manchuria in 1931 using a false flag operation, and then going for the rest of the country. Show me the US officers running wages to see who cuts more Japanese heads, or the routine execution and abuse of PoWs, because, according to you, the same arguments could be pointed the other way...

I've already posted. Quit assuming and start reading.

 

 

I aren't assuming anything, all you have posted is "what aboutist" non-sense, I guess you can't rise above the Last Dingo level.


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#506 JasonJ

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 1706 PM

 

 

 

What's more surprising is the mixing of ally justice feeling with hindsight view that speaks in bias automatically set to be contray. The same argument could be pointed the other way had history played differently.

 
You sure about that? show me the US invading Manchuria in 1931 using a false flag operation, and then going for the rest of the country. Show me the US officers running wages to see who cuts more Japanese heads, or the routine execution and abuse of PoWs, because, according to you, the same arguments could be pointed the other way...
I've already posted. Quit assuming and start reading.
 
 
I aren't assuming anything, all you have posted is "what aboutist" non-sense, I guess you can't rise above the Last Dingo level.
 
 
Can you post by linking to those examples of "what aboutism" as to why they aren't relevant?

Edited by JasonJ, 10 July 2019 - 1709 PM.

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#507 Nobu

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 1820 PM

"It has been reported that when the remains of Japanese soldiers were repatriated from the Mariana Islands in 1984, sixty percent were missing their skulls."

 

http://george.loper....002/Mar/65.html


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#508 Brian Kennedy

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 1848 PM

"It has been reported that when the remains of Japanese soldiers were repatriated from the Mariana Islands in 1984, sixty percent were missing their skulls."

 

http://george.loper....002/Mar/65.html

 

At least they didn't eat their livers.


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#509 Brian Kennedy

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 1905 PM

Or if you would prefer a Japanese source: https://www.theguard...man-experiments
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#510 R011

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 1910 PM


"It has been reported that when the remains of Japanese soldiers were repatriated from the Mariana Islands in 1984, sixty percent were missing their skulls."
 
http://george.loper....002/Mar/65.html

 
At least they didn't eat their livers.
Chianti shortage.

Edited by R011, 10 July 2019 - 1911 PM.

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#511 Yama

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Posted Yesterday, 05:25 AM

 

The Japanese military was hoping for the kind of peace Germany got in 1919 only better. The Allies were not interested in a twenty year armistice as that peace was presciently described by Foch.

They could have got terms as good from 1942 on - as soon as it was obvious that they could not win. Japan had no one but its government and its military masters to blame for the war and its consequences.

 

The Japanese probably did not anticipate the US was going to take such an uncompromising position on negotiations.  Why they might have had this impression is that Japan had a long history as an Asian power as being treated with respect, as an equal, in the Great Power club.  Once the Japanese lost Saipan and Tojo fell, this should have been taken as the signal that the Japanese were ready to admit they'd lost the war, and start talks.     

 

 

Japanese were expecting/hoping something similar to Russo-Japanese war. They would score few big wins by help of surprise, initiative and concentration of forces. Conquests would serve both as operational basis and negotiation pieces for the peace. You don't need to keep all you capture, in the end you can make big 'concessions' to other side, making the settlement more attractive to them and still end up with more or less what you originally wanted.

 

I do not submit to the view that Allied victory in WW2 was inevitable. Sure enough, population and economic statistics heavily stacked the deck to their favour, but the cards still needed to be played. After the first part of their plan went quite well (in some ways even better than they hoped), they fell victim to what they called 'victory disease' or what I call 'one more push -syndrome'. Hey, we achieved a good but not complete success here, maybe if we try it again with just few more ships and battalions, it will work out...and before you know it, you're no longer scoring overwhelming victories, you are trading ships and men at 1-to-1 rate which you can ill afford.


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