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#13661 bojan

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Posted Today, 11:22 AM

In which case it was a clear fuckup by AD crew by not noticing it.

Proces is automatic, but there will be a warning to a crew.


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#13662 bojan

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Posted Today, 11:34 AM

Or just were unable to distinguish its presence among fake targets\countermeasures and Israel airplanes. Even if they were told that it is Rus plane somewhere in the area...

 

1st part - doubtful, ECM don't really work that way.

2nd part, if you know there are friendlies in the "zone" you don't fire, period.

When Lukashenko and Chernomyrdin were visiting Serbia during 1999. NATO bombing NATO knew that ceasefire will be issued to all AD units in that area (it was actually issued to all units except 20mm AA guns which were allowed to fire only in self-defense if their battery is directly attacked) and actually went hunting for AD at lower than usual levels. People grinded teeth and did not fire, cause they knew there was a "friendly" airplane in area and that firing was strictly forbidden due the fuckup potential.

 

So Syrians either:

- had no clue about plane being there, which is a Russia fault

- they fired regardless which is a criminally irresponsible and their fault

Everything else is a blame shifting.

 

Yes, there is some Israeli responsibility, but main fault is either Russian or Syrian and there is no way to escape that fact.


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#13663 bojan

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Posted 54 minutes ago

...By the way one of popular conspiracy theories in Rus internet is that Russian MOD claims of Il-20 shot down by SAM are fake to cover up it was shot down by Israel fighter (to some extent, it is explaining why crew was able to report fire on board and descending, not killed immediately by massive S-200 warhead as it happened to Tu-154 crew, or as much bigger MH17 destroyed by much smaller BUK warhead).

 

 

Buk has much more favorable attack geometry, trying to come in front and above if not in borderline engagement, which in majority of cases guarantees hit on cockpit, so no SOS.

Unlike it, SA-5, due the fact it is liquid fueled can not really dive and will come from whatever angle it approaches, and from below, often hitting "less important"" parts that will not cause instantaneous disintegration of the plane. Plus there is a guidance accuracy which might make hit at the edge of the killzone.


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#13664 JWB

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Posted 22 minutes ago

 

Or just were unable to distinguish its presence among fake targets\countermeasures and Israel airplanes. Even if they were told that it is Rus plane somewhere in the area...

 

1st part - doubtful, ECM don't really work that way.

2nd part, if you know there are friendlies in the "zone" you don't fire, period.

When Lukashenko and Chernomyrdin were visiting Serbia during 1999. NATO bombing NATO knew that ceasefire will be issued to all AD units in that area (it was actually issued to all units except 20mm AA guns which were allowed to fire only in self-defense if their battery is directly attacked) and actually went hunting for AD at lower than usual levels. People grinded teeth and did not fire, cause they knew there was a "friendly" airplane in area and that firing was strictly forbidden due the fuckup potential.

 

So Syrians either:

- had no clue about plane being there, which is a Russia fault

- they fired regardless which is a criminally irresponsible and their fault

Everything else is a blame shifting.

 

Yes, there is some Israeli responsibility, but main fault is either Russian or Syrian and there is no way to escape that fact.

 

Looks like this has settled the issue.


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#13665 Josh

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Posted 9 minutes ago

Looks like this has settled the issue.

 

The idea that the people who fired the missile in the direction of a friendly airbase might in some way be responsible? Perish the thought! :)


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#13666 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 5 minutes ago

Bojan, did you ever serve in an AD unit? Because you know a shitload about Soviet air defence systems.


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