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Panther Gets Too Much Love And Hate?


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#361 mkenny

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 0954 AM



Something else to consider of course is the number of Panthers and the number of guns firing at them. A low probability of hitting a weak spot times thousands of Panthers times goodness knows how many guns shooting at them over the course of their lifetimes and suddenly the chances of a few being knocked out by fluke hits goes up somewhat.

 

There is a well documented example of this principle at  work during EPSOM in June  1944. A whole Squadron of Shermans were advancing when they came face-to-face with a lone Tiger no. 114.  They unloaded on the Tiger and the flurry of shot so rattled the crew they bailed out and ran. That Tiger was also damaged by a deflection off the mantlet  down into the crew compartment

 

One (75mm round) had taken a piece out of the lower edge of the mantlet and gone into the tank through the roof,and one had ricocheted off the
track and up into the sponson

 

rTdikc.jpg

 

and red-hot splinters started a small easily contained fire-if the crew had hung around to put it out. Note the top section of the drivisors visor has been blown away.


Edited by mkenny, 17 February 2017 - 1307 PM.


#362 mkenny

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 1305 PM

It appears 'mantlet bounce' is not confined to the Panther. This from June 1945 firing trials on Tiger I '334' captured at Rauray June 1944.

 

Uepdjg.jpg


Edited by mkenny, 17 February 2017 - 1305 PM.


#363 Adam_S

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 1800 PM

 



Something else to consider of course is the number of Panthers and the number of guns firing at them. A low probability of hitting a weak spot times thousands of Panthers times goodness knows how many guns shooting at them over the course of their lifetimes and suddenly the chances of a few being knocked out by fluke hits goes up somewhat.

 

There is a well documented example of this principle at  work during EPSOM in June  1944. A whole Squadron of Shermans were advancing when they came face-to-face with a lone Tiger no. 114.  They unloaded on the Tiger and the flurry of shot so rattled the crew they bailed out and ran. That Tiger was also damaged by a deflection off the mantlet  down into the crew compartment

 

One (75mm round) had taken a piece out of the lower edge of the mantlet and gone into the tank through the roof,and one had ricocheted off the
track and up into the sponson

 

 

 

and red-hot splinters started a small easily contained fire-if the crew had hung around to put it out. Note the top section of the drivisors visor has been blown away.

 

 

The one that sprang to my mind was entire batteries of Soviet anti-tank guns engaging individual panzers at Kursk. There must have been a few fluke hits there.



#364 Jim Warford

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 2221 PM

 



Something else to consider of course is the number of Panthers and the number of guns firing at them. A low probability of hitting a weak spot times thousands of Panthers times goodness knows how many guns shooting at them over the course of their lifetimes and suddenly the chances of a few being knocked out by fluke hits goes up somewhat.

 

There is a well documented example of this principle at  work during EPSOM in June  1944. A whole Squadron of Shermans were advancing when they came face-to-face with a lone Tiger no. 114.  They unloaded on the Tiger and the flurry of shot so rattled the crew they bailed out and ran. That Tiger was also damaged by a deflection off the mantlet  down into the crew compartment

 

One (75mm round) had taken a piece out of the lower edge of the mantlet and gone into the tank through the roof,and one had ricocheted off the
track and up into the sponson

 

rTdikc.jpg

 

and red-hot splinters started a small easily contained fire-if the crew had hung around to put it out. Note the top section of the drivisors visor has been blown away.

 

 

Great pic...thanks!



#365 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 0302 AM

Panzer in Normandy identifies this as an SS Heavy Tank Battalion 101 tank, which seems born out by the crest you can see on the right. There is also speculation that it may have been a runner when they got hold of it, as seen by the drivers head seen through the hatch. The slight blurring of the left track also suggests it might be moving.  So yes, just like Tiger 131, brought to heel by a lucky mantlet shot, and yet not apparently destroyed either.

 

Too bad Bovie didnt get hold of this one as well.



#366 mkenny

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 0910 AM

It is Tiger '114' from 2/sSS PzAbt 101. It is not moving in that pic but there is film of it being driven.

 

7yNZjH.jpg

 

It did get to the UK but was used up in firing trials.

 

qYoHQV.jpg



#367 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 0922 AM

AHA! Now that clears up a mystery!

 

There was an old issue of Wheels and Tracks which featured a special trailer created for the British Tortoise project. In it they featured it being used for recovering at least 2 Tanks, a Tiger II I think from Belgium, and a Tiger 1. The Tiger II might be the one at Aberdeen (was that the one that rolled down a slope?) but the Tiger 1 above looks very familiar, particularly as it seems to be being embarked on that very trailer.

I seem to recall they had a Tiger 1 at Chertsey that was used up in firing trials, but I can swear to that. Presumably it was this one? I guess the Tiger II that was at Shriv and now at Bovington must have been recovered using the same method.

 

Incidentally at least the Tiger II required 2 Diamond T's being used in tandem to haul the tank and the Trailer. Which is still better than the 3 halftracks the Germans needed to tow it....

 

Thanks for the pictures btw, very interesting indeed.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 19 February 2017 - 0922 AM.


#368 mkenny

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 0948 AM

2 Tigers were used up in firing trials. Both from SS 101. No.  114  and no. 334 shown below . Both captured at Rauray in Late June 1944 . A third Tiger taken at the same time was too damaged to make it back to the UK.

 

NQEiw4.jpg


Edited by mkenny, 19 February 2017 - 0950 AM.





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