Jump to content


Photo

Only Sensible Use Of A Goliath ?


  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

#1 Inhapi

Inhapi

    Wielder of the Unicorn Hat

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 608 posts

Posted 03 July 2019 - 0528 AM

   34904063-9cc5-11e9-abcc-02b7b76bf47f.jpg


  • 0

#2 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Just Another Salisbury Tourist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 54,677 posts

Posted 03 July 2019 - 0532 AM

I think the Tank museum used theirs (Might even be the same one) as a donations box. I thought that was pretty clever.


  • 0

#3 Panzermann

Panzermann

    REFORGER '79

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,462 posts

Posted 03 July 2019 - 0747 AM

LOL to both uses. :lol:

 

 

 

 

But I still want one with a modern remote control. 


  • 0

#4 Harold Jones

Harold Jones

    Shaken but not deterred...

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 4,393 posts

Posted 03 July 2019 - 1159 AM

I firmly believe that the Goliath caused more casualties as a go cart than it did as a weapon.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=zhK8L0PgPdA


  • 0

#5 Markus Becker

Markus Becker

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,907 posts

Posted 03 July 2019 - 1209 PM

Is that a self propelled, remote controlled strongbox? Anyway, without the Goliath we wouldn't be able to play "find the Goliath" when visiting a military museum. 


  • 0

#6 Inhapi

Inhapi

    Wielder of the Unicorn Hat

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 608 posts

Posted 03 July 2019 - 1351 PM

I think the Tank museum used theirs (Might even be the same one) as a donations box. I thought that was pretty clever.

 

The thinking is going in the same but reverse direction, these soldiers are having pay-day, maybe it was the same Goliath that turned to the other side of the give and take divide ?  :-)


  • 0

#7 DKTanker

DKTanker

    1strdhit

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,696 posts

Posted 03 July 2019 - 1851 PM

While the Goliath wasn't terribly successful, I am wondering about the need to mock a forerunner of today's robotics.


  • 0

#8 TTK Ciar

TTK Ciar

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,016 posts

Posted 03 July 2019 - 2039 PM

Wikipedia mentions that the electric motors used by the Goliath were expensive (3000 Reichsmarks).

It makes me grateful to live in an age where I can yank a much better one out of a $40 shopvac.
 


  • 0

#9 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Just Another Salisbury Tourist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 54,677 posts

Posted 04 July 2019 - 0521 AM

Make a nice coffee table if you put a glass top on it. Then if you wanted to sit in a different chair, you could drive your coffee over to it.


  • 0

#10 Panzermann

Panzermann

    REFORGER '79

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,462 posts

Posted 04 July 2019 - 0753 AM

While the Goliath wasn't terribly successful, I am wondering about the need to mock a forerunner of today's robotics.

 

I think it is the name Goliath combined with its diminutive size.


  • 0

#11 Gavin-Phillips

Gavin-Phillips

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,594 posts

Posted 04 July 2019 - 1231 PM

Wikipedia mentions that the electric motors used by the Goliath were expensive (3000 Reichsmarks).

It makes me grateful to live in an age where I can yank a much better one out of a $40 shopvac.
 

 

A BBC documentary (I watched it on youtube a while back) said the original version was battery powered, with later versions having a motorbike engine.  This raised the weight of the Goliath but as a benefit of the upgrade, it could also carry a heavier charge.  I'd be interested to know if there was more than one version of these "vehicles"?  I do believe IWM Duxford had one in their collection when I visited a few years back.  


  • 0

#12 sunday

sunday

    Bronze-age right-wing delusional retard

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 12,003 posts

Posted 04 July 2019 - 1233 PM

 

Wikipedia mentions that the electric motors used by the Goliath were expensive (3000 Reichsmarks).

It makes me grateful to live in an age where I can yank a much better one out of a $40 shopvac.
 

 

A BBC documentary (I watched it on youtube a while back) said the original version was battery powered, with later versions having a motorbike engine.  This raised the weight of the Goliath but as a benefit of the upgrade, it could also carry a heavier charge.  I'd be interested to know if there was more than one version of these "vehicles"?  I do believe IWM Duxford had one in their collection when I visited a few years back.  

 

 

It would be striking for IWM Duxford to not have a Goliath, according to Harold Jones statistics of Goliaths in military museums.


  • 0

#13 Markus Becker

Markus Becker

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,907 posts

Posted 04 July 2019 - 1242 PM

There was a bigger version.

https://i.imgur.com/NpqHEPK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BZP62yB.jpg
  • 0

#14 sunday

sunday

    Bronze-age right-wing delusional retard

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 12,003 posts

Posted 04 July 2019 - 1338 PM

 

Remarkable museum, that one.


  • 0

#15 CaptLuke

CaptLuke

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,160 posts

Posted 04 July 2019 - 1601 PM

I ran into a surprisingly in depth discussion of these vehicles in Sturmgeschütz: Panzer, Panzerjäger, Waffen-SS and Luftwaffe Units 1943–45 by Thomas Anderson, since Stugs were used as the control vehicles; it's mostly about the "improved" BIV (as shown in Markus's pics), but I'd imagine all the comments apply to the Goliath as well and the "Landungsträger (demolition charge carrier)" did sound like a waste of time and effort.  Here are some pull quotes:

  • Technical failures with the radio-control equipment was a constant problem, and heavy mud restricted the type’s mobility. 
  • The deployment at Kursk was to show the limitations of the B IV. The terrain, rutted by heavy artillery bombardment and intersected by trench systems, prevented the vehicles getting to their targets.
  • The Borgward B IV Landungsträger was designed as a purely offensive weapon and was almost impossible to use for a defensive operation. 
  • despite having a very limited field of application still had to be transported to a target, squandering precious fuel and personnel resources.

Even the theoretical performance had serious limitations (from Tank Warfare on the Eastern Front 1943-1945: Red Steamroller by Robert Forczyk):

  • The Germans estimated that at least four BIVs were needed to clear a 100-metre deep lane through a minefield and that this would take two hours to complete. However, a critical flaw was that the Panzerkompanie (Fkl) had no means of marking cleared lanes
  • By the time of Kursk, the Soviets learned that a minefield covered by fire from concealed anti-tank guns was the best answer to the Tiger or Panther, yet the Germans never really improved their mine-clearing skills.

Edited by CaptLuke, 04 July 2019 - 1703 PM.

  • 0

#16 DougRichards

DougRichards

    Doug Richards

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10,183 posts

Posted 04 July 2019 - 2218 PM

 

 

Wikipedia mentions that the electric motors used by the Goliath were expensive (3000 Reichsmarks).

It makes me grateful to live in an age where I can yank a much better one out of a $40 shopvac.
 

 

A BBC documentary (I watched it on youtube a while back) said the original version was battery powered, with later versions having a motorbike engine.  This raised the weight of the Goliath but as a benefit of the upgrade, it could also carry a heavier charge.  I'd be interested to know if there was more than one version of these "vehicles"?  I do believe IWM Duxford had one in their collection when I visited a few years back.  

 

 

It would be striking for IWM Duxford to not have a Goliath, according to Harold Jones statistics of Goliaths in military museums.

 

 

"Panzer DNA" lists the total price of a Goliath as being that 3,000 DM or about half the cost of a 2cm Flak 38 or four times an 8cm mortar.


  • 0

#17 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Just Another Salisbury Tourist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 54,677 posts

Posted 05 July 2019 - 0437 AM

Did they ever use Goliath in an Urban setting? I would have thought the shorter range and firmer ground might have made it more viable.


  • 0

#18 Markus Becker

Markus Becker

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,907 posts

Posted 05 July 2019 - 0501 AM

Warsaw 1944?
  • 0

#19 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Just Another Salisbury Tourist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 54,677 posts

Posted 05 July 2019 - 0624 AM

Did they use them there? Ive never read of it.


  • 0

#20 Chris Werb

Chris Werb

    In Zod We Trust

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10,937 posts

Posted 05 July 2019 - 0746 AM

Did they use them there? Ive never read of it.

 

 

According to von dem Bach himself the number of guns used in the bombardment was as follows:

 

https://en.wikipedia...Warsaw_Uprising


  • 0