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Arguments For And Against Vegetarianism?


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#1 Mr King

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 1746 PM

I love the taste of meat. I believe a meat-centric. low carbohydrate diet is the healthiest for you. I have hunted and helped in the skinning and butchering of animals.  But as time passes and I get older I am finding it harder and harder to eat meat conscientiously. I think the issues for me is the sentience,.suffering, and death of what becomes my food. I don't believe others should stop eating me, that is their choice. It is just an issue that has been weighing on my conscious lately. 


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#2 TTK Ciar

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 1928 PM

When I met my wife she was living in a small commune, and I moved in with her for a couple of years. When our finances allowed it we got our own place.

In the commune, everyone chipped in for groceries, which were purchased and cooked as a batch, and we all ate it together. Because of economy of scale and because it mostly consisted of inexpensive vegetables, a little money went a really long way. We had large, delicious, filling meals on a shoestring budget. It was a great way to save money.

So put those in the "arguments for" category -- life without meat or processed foods can be inexpensive, and it doesn't need to be a big sacrifice.

We loved meat too much to give it up, so sometimes when we were out we'd splurge a bit and get lunch at a steakhouse or diner. Still, the experience changed our habits, and for twenty years we only ate meat with our meals a few times a week. It's not something we tried to do, it's just how it turned out.

I can't digest beef very well these days, so it's mostly chicken and pork, with the occasional fish, mutton or lamb.

After recovering from surgery a couple of years ago, I found that I'd gained a lot of weight. A -lot- of weight. In the past, counting calories was effective at dropping pounds, but this time I also took the step of eliminating sugar and most carbohydrates from my meals. I switched to a high protein, high fat diet, about 40%/60%, and counted calories. After about a year I'd dropped forty pounds, which is about where I'd like to stay, indefinitely, and so far that's where it's been.

Maintaining that diet means eating more meat than I have at any other time in my life, along with copious cheese, nuts and veggies. The high fat content helps keep me satisfied between meals, so it would be hard to keep up if I didn't eat an entire package of weisswurst or similar almost every day.

So put all that in the "arguments against" category.

Ultimately it boils down to personal preference, including sentiment (like your conscience about food animals suffering), and what one wishes to accomplish. I don't think there can be a universally applicable argument for -or- against vegetarianism, just different reasons which might apply to some people and not others.

Edited by TTK Ciar, 10 February 2018 - 1928 PM.

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#3 Ssnake

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 1948 PM

There isn't much speaking against vegetarianism other than convenience, I suppose (assuming that you're not "stupid vegetarian" but still try to ensure a balanced diet with still enough protein in it).

 

But if you're specifically looking for arguments against it: The only fact based argument I know is that the life expectancy of vegetarians is about two years shorter. They die in better health, though.


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#4 shep854

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 2000 PM

Each person needs to find the dietary balance that's best for them.

 

As for compulsory vegetarianism, how many successful vegetarian civilizations have there been?


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#5 JasonJ

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 2011 PM

Not an argument for vegetaianism but the huge scale of assembly line slaughter of animals persuades me to skip out of meat once in a while. I think it is thoughtlessly overconsumed a little. I don't see anything wrong in hunting one's own meat and preparing the rest of meat for refrigeration and such.
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#6 seahawk

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 0609 AM

Vegetarianism is pretty reasonable, as you still consume diary products and eggs. I eat vegetarian about 5 days a week and not for moral reasons but because too much meat does not go too well with my digestive system and my body often has a real appetite for fresh vegetables. Apart from that since eating less meat, I can easily afford high quality meat which makes the experience of eating meat much more pleasant.


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#7 Martin M

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 0650 AM

Not an argument for vegetaianism but the huge scale of assembly line slaughter of animals persuades me to skip out of meat once in a while. I think it is thoughtlessly overconsumed a little. I don't see anything wrong in hunting one's own meat and preparing the rest of meat for refrigeration and such.

Yes.

 

It seems the vegetarians use the assembly line animal production as an argument. 

 

Me being (seemingly one of few) worried about overpopulation, I might suggest a connection thereof  to the assembly line production of animals; and as the next billions of humans are on the way, animal production will have to be constantly more efficient. Zillions and zillions of chickens to feed everyone.

 

 

 

I don´t mind higher meat prices.  If I skip meat once in a while, it´s for health reasons.


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#8 JasonJ

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 0757 AM

Not an argument for vegetaianism but the huge scale of assembly line slaughter of animals persuades me to skip out of meat once in a while. I think it is thoughtlessly overconsumed a little. I don't see anything wrong in hunting one's own meat and preparing the rest of meat for refrigeration and such.

Yes.
 
It seems the vegetarians use the assembly line animal production as an argument. 
 
Me being (seemingly one of few) worried about overpopulation, I might suggest a connection thereof  to the assembly line production of animals; and as the next billions of humans are on the way, animal production will have to be constantly more efficient. Zillions and zillions of chickens to feed everyone.
 
 
 
I don´t mind higher meat prices.  If I skip meat once in a while, it´s for health reasons.

They most likely do. Many of them probably think the assembly style should be banned. I don't directly listen.to them but just an impression. That doesn't include me. I'm not bothered by it enough to make me urge it as policy. If it was necessary to ensure a healthy diet for millions, then yeah, but it should be no surprise to hear that it is consumed quite a lot more in some places than what is needed to maintain that level. So its the combination of over indulgence and that assembly style in my individual thoughts. But I also think people should be free to decide how they eat and I would be against any government regulation on that vegetarian basis. It might sound like I care a lot about it. I don't. It's just my own view, and its a view that practically never sees the light of day because I really don't care about it that. There are days in which I enjoy eating a lot of it, like at a BBQ. Maybe my view is too wordy to be something that I don't really care about, but it is what it is.
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#9 rmgill

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 1331 PM

It's my understanding that you pretty much have to REALLY like beans to get all the necessary proteins from vegetable matter. There's one particular protein only found in beans (other than commonly in meat). Vegetarianism seems like a lot of work. Need some protein and fat, eat a bit of chicken with the skin on. 

IF you're doing any sort of heavy work, you'll need the meat or LOTS of proteins. Two of my sisters were both vegetarians. They started the Appalachian Trail hike, all the way through, 3 days in, in North Georgia they hiked off the trail to a Wendy's and had 2+ burgers each. They had been ripping so much muscle on just those two days that they had insane cravings for meat. One of them is still omnivorous, I'm not sure about the other. 


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#10 Rickard N

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 1352 PM

I doubt that you have to eat meat to do heavy work. There are quite a few elite athletes that are vegan and they seem to do just fine.

 

/R


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#11 Ssnake

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 1444 PM

Examples, please.


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#12 Harold Jones

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 1448 PM

http://www.businessi...ir-diet-2017-10
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#13 Ssnake

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 1549 PM

Okay... interesting. Thanks!


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#14 Mobius

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 1559 PM

Apparently 3 oz. of chicken has the same amount of protein as 8 oz. of soy beans. 


Edited by Mobius, 11 February 2018 - 1559 PM.

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#15 Marek Tucan

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 1632 PM

I doubt that you have to eat meat to do heavy work. There are quite a few elite athletes that are vegan and they seem to do just fine.

 

/R

That is fully possible - however they are probably alsdo getting a host of food supplements to make up for it. Not too budget friendly I guess.

 

All in all, as long as you can use dairy and eggs, vegetarian cooking is often easier and faster than meat-eating one (when I feel lazy, it's just some courgettes or similar veggies with cream and cheese in the oven). In the summer, when I feel like eating cold food, I just cobble together a quick salad from a mix of fruits and veggies and add some cheese (cottage or otherwise), he presto! (actually roasted soy beans are great addition to salad if you have watery things in it - they soak up the water so you do not have swimming salad). If I feel like really dedicating some time to cooking, meat enters equation usually.

 

that being said, France is very meat-based country and in many traditional restaurants if you ask for vegetarian option, they look at you as if you just murdered their family in front of trheir eyes - then again in restaurant I do not care about lazy cooking so meat it is :)


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#16 toysoldier

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 2054 PM

If its a matter of conscience, most times that can be resolved through compromise, in this case eating less meat, from reliable sources, and putting emphasis in quality over quantity, so as to make it more enjoyable and less available through sheer economics. there´s also a good amount of veggies that have a meaty texture, mushrooms, eggplant, if you sauce that up i bet bet it would fake it well.

Gotta say though, we humans aren't particularly cruel. Been binge watching any BBC Nature documentary Netflix has to offer, and practically all meat eating by animals in the wild involves infanticide, chewing your prey alive or swallowing it whole, most likely after a long and terrifying chase. That ought to ease your mind. On the other hand, you see how hard it is for humans who are forced to catch or raise they own meat, and how little they get in exchange for a lot of effort and ingenuity. There´s these guys who steal meat from lions, some fish on the edge of a cataract because only there are they safe from crocs and hippos, some manipulate horrible toxins and stalk their catch for a week in the middle of a damn dessert, some have to fend off the nastiest predators. They have no qualms about how they go in their meat business because there´s no abundance nor waste in their lives.


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#17 beans4

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 2108 PM

My doctor suggested I attend a seminar promoting a weight-loss program.  One of the things the doctor running the program said was:  "per capita consumption of beef has dropped over 30 years, same with eggs and dairy.  While during the same time obesity and cardiovascular disease have increased."  His program is based on lots of vegetables (but not just any, potatoes are evil), but has enough fat to provide satiation, and a fair amount of meat as well.  A sample breakfast for him is 3 eggs with cheese, 3 strips of bacon and some sliced avocado.


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#18 beans4

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 2109 PM

duplicate


Edited by beans4, 11 February 2018 - 2111 PM.

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#19 Mobius

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 2322 PM

Meat has more concentrated protein.  What that means is you can get more protein per oz from meat.  But volumn may be more filling so you eat more meat than you need to sustain yourself.  Thus to feel full it may be better to not eat meat but vegetables.   Though vegetable matter may release more methane so vegetarians may stink up a room like a herd of cows. :D 


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#20 DougRichards

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 0237 AM

Meat eating goes back a long way:

 

Adam[a] made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain.[b] She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought forth[c] a man.” Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock.

 

Jesus himself ate flesh

 

Luke 24

 

40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.


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