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Hms Queen Elizabeth


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#901 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 1123 AM

It makes you wonder how the Titanic left port really. :)


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#902 rmgill

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 1201 PM

To be fair, there really isn't such a thing as a safe base now, possibly excluding some cold war underground naval facilities and those were only for subs and FACs. A civilian already illegally landed a drone on the QE.

Diego Garcia and Guam should be fairly safe given the quantity of local population being quite small. 


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#903 Nobu

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 1221 PM

The more I think about forward basing of the QE in the gulf, the more I like it. Doing so forces every actor in the region to reckon with London's intentions at sea regarding actions they may decide to undertake there.

 

It represents what the application of seapower and its influence should be in every way.


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#904 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 0311 AM

It would make sense to have a bilateral agreement with the French to rotate CDG and a QE in the far east as well.  That way we will usually have one to deploy in the North Atlantic if we need it.

 

If the Japanese can put another carrier on the pile, suddenly we have a very flexible team, that could have 2 carrier battlegroup in the Far East, and at least one Carrier Battlegroup off Iran.

 

 

Ok, so its my fantasy football approach to defence policy. Its still a good idea.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 21 September 2019 - 0312 AM.

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#905 DougRichards

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 0343 AM

It makes you wonder how the Titanic left port really. :)

 

You mean the SS Olympic repainted as the Titanic. 

 

I suspect that the Titanic was rebuilt as an aircraft carrier and sunk to conceal the evidence after the Royal Navy raided Pearl Harbor.


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#906 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 0356 AM

Yes, thats probably exactly what happened. :)


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#907 JasonJ

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 0435 AM

It would make sense to have a bilateral agreement with the French to rotate CDG and a QE in the far east as well.  That way we will usually have one to deploy in the North Atlantic if we need it.
 
If the Japanese can put another carrier on the pile, suddenly we have a very flexible team, that could have 2 carrier battlegroup in the Far East, and at least one Carrier Battlegroup off Iran.
 
 
Ok, so its my fantasy football approach to defence policy. Its still a good idea.


Both the Izumo and Kaga are planned for the carrier modification. Izumo is getting the modification first. So those two serving for 42 F-35Bs plus any ally ones.

There's been nothing as to whether or not there is going to be another carrier class.

Edited by JasonJ, 21 September 2019 - 0446 AM.

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#908 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 0514 AM

May as well buy the QE design and tinker as required. India is thinking of doing the same. Thats not to say there is nothing wrong in the vessels you have, but more deck space is always useful.


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#909 JasonJ

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 0535 AM

I think the hardest thing in getting a larger carrier is getting the manpower. If there is to be a new carrier class, it would mean aircraft for it. I would like to see something new. But I would like to see a fully functional carrier in in 50,000 ton class, and two of that class. So then for fighters, would like to see something more carrier ops oriented. So either F-35Cs or maybe a naval vesion of the F-3. Japan has been operating E-2Cs already and E-2Ds are on the way so those should fairly easily be fitted into whatever carrier scheme is imagined. But it all would take additional personnel. But that is way out there still. First, have to convert Izumo and Kaga and have some F-35Bs flying off there first and then see where things are at before making a call about more carriers. It'll be 2026ish probably by then.
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#910 Chris Werb

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 0637 AM

Where to start?

The Russians barely have a surface fleet and expect us to sink it on Day 1. There is thus no scope for retaliation against their fleet. This is not a game of Top Trumps. Things dont need to be compared directly.

I spent some time down in Portsmouth a few years back and dont recall the crews of ships at permanent stand to with rifles on deck. For much of the time most the crew wouldn't be anywhere near the ship. Likewise there will definitely be problems aiming a minimum at a drone approaching from an urban area. Then what happens if the attack happens at 1 am? Will the entire crew be on deck with rifles with night sights? What if the drones drop munitions from a respectable height? What if it's foggy?

You are also back to thinking of ships as if they are steel monolith with points based damage systems. They're not. They have vulnerabilities in the form of subsystems. A drone can pack enough of a punch to ruin any of the electronics or fixed defensive subsystems on an aircraft carrier. With a cruise missile it's a one shot mission kill from one of a variety of aim points.

If you look back at some of the more audacious attacks thd IRA pulled off, it's hard not to credit the Russians with at least as much creativity and they certainly have far greater resources. However, might deliberately leave the carrier in port alone though as it would have no aircraft on it and those aircraft would be much more dangerous to take out if operating from dispersed locations on land. Better to let it go to sea, embark its air wing and sink it then. Even if they dont sink it, it will go sailing off to somewhere where its air wing would be irrelevant to a conflict in Eastern Europe, so why bother?
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#911 DougRichards

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 0727 AM

Where to start?

The Russians barely have a surface fleet and expect us to sink it on Day 1. There is thus no scope for retaliation against their fleet. This is not a game of Top Trumps. Things dont need to be compared directly.

I spent some time down in Portsmouth a few years back and dont recall the crews of ships at permanent stand to with rifles on deck. For much of the time most the crew wouldn't be anywhere near the ship. Likewise there will definitely be problems aiming a minimum at a drone approaching from an urban area. Then what happens if the attack happens at 1 am? Will the entire crew be on deck with rifles with night sights? What if the drones drop munitions from a respectable height? What if it's foggy?

You are also back to thinking of ships as if they are steel monolith with points based damage systems. They're not. They have vulnerabilities in the form of subsystems. A drone can pack enough of a punch to ruin any of the electronics or fixed defensive subsystems on an aircraft carrier. With a cruise missile it's a one shot mission kill from one of a variety of aim points.

If you look back at some of the more audacious attacks thd IRA pulled off, it's hard not to credit the Russians with at least as much creativity and they certainly have far greater resources. However, might deliberately leave the carrier in port alone though as it would have no aircraft on it and those aircraft would be much more dangerous to take out if operating from dispersed locations on land. Better to let it go to sea, embark its air wing and sink it then. Even if they dont sink it, it will go sailing off to somewhere where its air wing would be irrelevant to a conflict in Eastern Europe, so why bother?

 

I just had a strange idea.  A very slow (needs only be one or two knots in some circumstances) self guiding 'torpedo' or self propelled mine.  Just big enough for the energy storage, guidance and a small warhead - even a HEAT warhead.

 

A swarm released near the entrance to a harbour by a passing 'merchant ship' and guided by GPS or INS just below the surface.  Silent and would barely register above the background.


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#912 Nobu

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 1010 AM

It would make sense to have a bilateral agreement with the French to rotate CDG and a QE in the far east as well.  That way we will usually have one to deploy in the North Atlantic if we need it.
 
If the Japanese can put another carrier on the pile, suddenly we have a very flexible team, that could have 2 carrier battlegroup in the Far East, and at least one Carrier Battlegroup off Iran.
 
 
Ok, so its my fantasy football approach to defence policy. Its still a good idea.


A tripartite agreement in essence, and one that would represent a Japanese shift toward a more independent policy overall.

Interesting to contemplate.
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#913 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 1037 AM

Prince of Wales has, according to the Daily Mail, complaints about the crew Quarters. OTOH< its the Daily Mail. They arent happy unless they are bitching and finding the negative side about something.

 

https://www.dailymai...w-quarters.html


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#914 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 1046 AM

Incidentally that series I linked up donkeys years ago is going to be up on the Smithsonian channel in October, so please keep an eye open for it.

https://www.broadway...ARRIER-20190916


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#915 Jeff

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 1403 PM

Prince of Wales has, according to the Daily Mail, complaints about the crew Quarters. OTOH< its the Daily Mail. They arent happy unless they are bitching and finding the negative side about something.

 

https://www.dailymai...w-quarters.html

 

The picture in question is obviously not a functioning crews quarters. Given only 600 aboard right now, there must be plenty of unneeded spaces that are serving as storage and work spaces for the initial trials. Unless someone can show a lived in crew quarters in similar condition, I'm calling BS.


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#916 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 1418 PM

Well it's not like they are carrying an air wing at the moment. They have to work up to that.
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#917 Nobu

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 2229 PM

Incidentally that series I linked up donkeys years ago is going to be up on the Smithsonian channel in October, so please keep an eye open for it.

https://www.broadway...ARRIER-20190916

 

There will be a Japanese sequel to this series one day.


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#918 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 0158 AM

Some more footage.

 


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#919 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 0201 AM

There has also been this programme on TV recently, focusing on training the RAF and RN crews that will be flying the F35B.


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#920 DB

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 0435 AM


Prince of Wales has, according to the Daily Mail, complaints about the crew Quarters. OTOH< its the Daily Mail. They arent happy unless they are bitching and finding the negative side about something.
 
https://www.dailymai...w-quarters.html

 
The picture in question is obviously not a functioning crews quarters. Given only 600 aboard right now, there must be plenty of unneeded spaces that are serving as storage and work spaces for the initial trials. Unless someone can show a lived in crew quarters in similar condition, I'm calling BS.
This is likely bang on.

I'm going to bet that the sailor quoted was talking in comparison to the required state of their normal quarters, and moaning about the work needed to get things ship-shape, rather than moaning about what they're going to be like.
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