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And We Are Off To The Races

German Elections 2013

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#1321 BansheeOne

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Posted 07 April 2019 - 0418 AM

Well yes, again - every party has the right to one post, but not a specific candidate. You can't force the deputies to elect anybody to the position any more than you can force them to elect a chancellor, no matter how many candidates are presented; if none gets the required majority, or plurality on third attempt, none gets to take over the position. Democracy can be a bitch like that, even if the underlying antics in the individual case are silly.


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#1322 Markus Becker

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Posted 07 April 2019 - 1554 PM

So the AfD has this right but only in theory because the others have the right to deny this right to the AfD. That has nothing to do with democracy, that's the use of loopholes in regulations to discriminate against one party, which happens to be the largest opposition party. But it's hardly the third time that rules are changed, bend or ignored to hurt this party and only this one. 

 

And that does say something about the state of democracy in 2019. 


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#1323 Ssnake

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Posted 07 April 2019 - 1824 PM

You can't force the individual member of parliament to vote in a certain way, that's the whole point of it, not even when it would be the "reasonable" thing to do. The AfD does everything it can to piss off the establishment - no wonder if the establishment is less than willing to vote for any of their candidates. It's childish, petty-minded and ultimately probably counter-productive. But it's not proof that "democracy doesn't work".


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#1324 BansheeOne

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 0209 AM

If anything, that sentiment compounds suspicions about the AfD's relationship with democracy, which for many of their exponents seems to be the good old bolshevist "we represent the will of the people, even though the people failed to give us a majority".
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#1325 Markus Becker

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 1651 PM

So, demanding what you are legally entitled to and what everybody else is getting calls the AfD's relationship with deomcracy into question? As for the AfD pissing other party's off. Yes they do by simply existing as we saw today, when the other parties provided more evidence that its not about this or that candidate but the party as a whole as they freely admitted. 


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#1326 Panzermann

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 0645 AM

OT here, but funny imho

 

 

The only R2G I care about

 

 

:D


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#1327 BansheeOne

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 0652 AM

Cross-referencing from the "Because, Germany" thread:

 

The expropriation initiative against Berlin's biggest real estate corporations is separate from this, run by some leftist activists, but supported by the Left Party which is part of the state and city government. They suggest that ca. 200,000 units could be taken into public ownership under Article 15 of the German constitution (never used so far) for a compensation of 7.3 to 13.7 billion Euros - considerably below current market prices estimated at up to 25 billion, but still money which notoriously broke Berlin doesn't have. So they further suggest that just 20 percent of this should be its own money, the rest from credits to be refinanced within 30 years from the rents revenue, but admit that the base for calculation is "difficult". Anyway, even if they clear the hurdles to hold a referendum on this, I can't see it going anywhere.

 

With the initiative now starting to collect signatures for holding a referendum, the topic has hit national politics. The Left Party is of course all for expropriation and is actually campaigning with it on local posters for the upcoming European elections (which have nothing to do with the issue). At the other extreme, the liberal FDP is calling for straight abolishing Article 15 from the constitution. Green national co-chairman Robert Habeck, despite being of the party's "Realo" wing, has stated that expropriations should not be ruled out in "emergencies", about which new CDU secretary general Paul Ziemiak promptly showed himself "stunned", noting that this was certainly not helping any thoughts about future "black-green" coalitions.

 

In fact the Greens are currently all over the place politically, as they try to cater to their old leftist voters as well as their new conservativish ones. Habeck has been promoting other points recently that look more fit to prepare an all-left red-red-green coalition - guaranteed minimum pensions, abolishing the Hartz IV welfare reforms, etc.; widely interpreted as attempts to drive up prices for a coalition with CDU/CSU though, since no majority for one with SPD and Left Party is in sight. CDU/CSU are of course happily using those demands to try and win back voters from the Greens. OTOH, Green Bundestag MPs Ekin Deligöz and Manuela Rottmann recently called upon their party to have a "honest debate" on misogyny among Muslim immigrants, the latest in a string of moves to sharpen up the Green's law-and-order profile and suggest they are ready to take on classical "hard" departments like interior ministries.

 

The SPD is generally opposed to expropriation, but has to contend with individual nutbaggers espousing the opposite, particularly from its Berlin ranks. The same goes for other topics, too; recently the Berlin chapter called for banning the Bundeswehr from access to schools, to the horror of national party figures. This is an old sorry issue, popular on the left which has long demanded not only to stop recruiting minors into the armed forces (currently possible at age 17 with parental consent, no deployment before reaching 18), but to ban recruiters as well as the (explicitely non-recruiting) "youth officers" holding classes on security polititics from schools, and stop all advertizing aimed at minors on top, because the poor impressionable kids supposedly need to be protected from being influenced to make the wrong job choice. Funnily, the same parties usually are for lowering voting age to 16.

 

Overall, CDU/CSU are back to somewhat weak 28-30 percent in national polls, with Greens 17-20, SPD 15-17, AfD 12-14, FDP 9-10 and Left 8-9. Polls for the European elections are similar with CDU/CSU 29-32, Greens 16-19, SPD 16-18, AfD 10-12, FDP 7-8 and Left 6-8. "Others" are rather prominent in the latter at 8-11, probably because the national five-percent threshold was abolished following a Constitutional Court decision in 2011; a draft for a two-percent threshold didn't get the necewssary two-thirds majority in the Bundestag last year. So about 0.6 percent of votes remain sufficient for access to the European Parliament; likely profiteers are the Free Voters which managed to become part of the Bavarian state government with the CSU last year, the Animal Protection Party, "Die Partei" of satiric Martin Sonneborn, the Pirates and the Ecological-Democratic Party.


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