Jump to content


Photo

Combination Muzzle Brake, Flash Suppressor , Sound Suppressor


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 17thfabn

17thfabn

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 148 posts

Posted 31 October 2018 - 2025 PM

Is there any weapon that has a combination sound suppressor, muzzle brake and flash suppressor?

 

If so, how long would it have to be for 5.56 or 7.62 weapons?


  • 0

#2 rmgill

rmgill

    Strap-hanger

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,304 posts

Posted 31 October 2018 - 2206 PM

I think the functional effects of the mechanisms cancel each other out in some of the functional area.

Muzzle brakes will eject gas to the side which is the opposite of what a flash suppressor is attempting to do which is reduce the flash visible.

Suppressors (auditory) need to contain the gases which is the opposite of what a muzzle brake does.

Now, sound suppressors ALSO suppress muzzle flash by their mechanism.

Size of the suppressor relates to caliber and material as well as rate of fire. MG suppressors for 7.62mm tend to be on the large size and steel so as to handle the large amount of heat. You can get by with a smaller 7.62mm suppressor for a bolt action rifle. The larger it is, the better it will suppress. Look at the size of the deLisle carbines for example.
  • 0

#3 DougRichards

DougRichards

    Doug Richards

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10,267 posts

Posted 31 October 2018 - 2223 PM

I was just thinking, what type of 5.56mm or 7.62 would need a muzzle brake?

 

 

12.7 I can believe, but the smaller calibres?  As a 13 year old I fired SMLE .303, as did smaller and lighter cadets, and so long as you pull the butt into the shoulder there was not much recoil to worry about.


Edited by DougRichards, 01 November 2018 - 0326 AM.

  • 0

#4 DougRichards

DougRichards

    Doug Richards

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10,267 posts

Posted 01 November 2018 - 0104 AM

I think the functional effects of the mechanisms cancel each other out in some of the functional area.

Muzzle brakes will eject gas to the side which is the opposite of what a flash suppressor is attempting to do which is reduce the flash visible.

Suppressors (auditory) need to contain the gases which is the opposite of what a muzzle brake does.

Now, sound suppressors ALSO suppress muzzle flash by their mechanism.

Size of the suppressor relates to caliber and material as well as rate of fire. MG suppressors for 7.62mm tend to be on the large size and steel so as to handle the large amount of heat. You can get by with a smaller 7.62mm suppressor for a bolt action rifle. The larger it is, the better it will suppress. Look at the size of the deLisle carbines for example.

 

The De Lisle also had the advantage of firing a pistol round at subsonic velocity.


  • 0

#5 bojan

bojan

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 11,844 posts

Posted 01 November 2018 - 0323 AM

Is there any weapon that has a combination sound suppressor, muzzle brake and flash suppressor?

 

XM-177?


  • 0

#6 lastdingo

lastdingo

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 4,922 posts

Posted 01 November 2018 - 0352 AM

All-metal sound suppressors have all three effects

 

sound suppression- somewhat

flash hiding - very good

muzzle brake effect - little effect (difference can be felt, as the peak recoil force is reduced)

compensator effect - little reduction of muzzle rise

accurizer effect - somewhat less dispersion (and very different zero than without sound suppressor)


  • 0

#7 Panzermann

Panzermann

    REFORGER '79

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,694 posts

Posted 01 November 2018 - 0919 AM

 

Is there any weapon that has a combination sound suppressor, muzzle brake and flash suppressor?

 

XM-177?

 

 

The main purpose of the moderator muzzle device was to change the sound of firing to not sound like an M16 and more like an AKM to deceive the opponent in the dense jungles. Hiding the giant fire balls that such a short 556 makes are also welcomed.


  • 0

#8 bojan

bojan

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 11,844 posts

Posted 01 November 2018 - 1001 AM

That was main purpose, but it did work as MB, FH and suppressor also.
  • 0

#9 Simon Tan

Simon Tan

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 13,155 posts

Posted 01 November 2018 - 1024 AM

You described a suppressor.


  • 0

#10 JW Collins

JW Collins

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,328 posts

Posted 01 November 2018 - 1336 PM

I thought the compensator or whatever that is on the XM177 was mainly to reduce otherwise excessive muzzle flash. Does M855 and newer play nicer with short barrels than M193?
  • 0

#11 rmgill

rmgill

    Strap-hanger

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,304 posts

Posted 01 November 2018 - 1341 PM

When I met AAC's owner/founder with Oleg something like 15 years ago, he described how they had figured out the effect of dispersion on their suppressor combos and built into their later muzzle attachment devices an indexing effect so that you could be sure that when you installed the suppressor after zeroing, you were getting a consistent poi shift. In some cases, depending on firearm/ammo/suppressor combos and proper indexing, you could get an effective slight rise in point of impact that was very predictable for scope adjustments.


  • 0

#12 Chris Werb

Chris Werb

    In Zod We Trust

  • Staff
  • PipPip
  • 11,011 posts

Posted 01 November 2018 - 1649 PM

I'm not sure that suppressors increase accuracy - if they did, I would expect to see them on target rifles here in the UK and in other permissive countries. On the other hand, in my experience, they certainly do not detract from accuracy.


  • 0

#13 Simon Tan

Simon Tan

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 13,155 posts

Posted 01 November 2018 - 1735 PM

See 9 Hole SPR Mk12 on Youtube.
  • 0

#14 rmgill

rmgill

    Strap-hanger

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,304 posts

Posted 01 November 2018 - 1750 PM


  • 0

#15 Panzermann

Panzermann

    REFORGER '79

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,694 posts

Posted 02 November 2018 - 0506 AM

I thought the compensator or whatever that is on the XM177 was mainly to reduce otherwise excessive muzzle flash. Does M855 and newer play nicer with short barrels than M193?



M855 A1 has been specifically designed to be fired from shorter barrels. M855 was designed when the M16 was still the general issue rifle.
  • 0

#16 shep854

shep854

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,521 posts

Posted 02 November 2018 - 0812 AM

Just what do muzzle boosters do?  I'm still not clear about them.


Edited by shep854, 02 November 2018 - 0813 AM.

  • 0

#17 Panzermann

Panzermann

    REFORGER '79

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,694 posts

Posted 02 November 2018 - 1012 AM

Just what do muzzle boosters do? I'm still not clear about them.


In the Maxim gun (or the MG42 and similar recoil action guns) the booster redirects gases onto the barrel muzzle to push back on it to activate the action by pushing the barrel rearwards. Actually now thinking about it, the barrel acts as a piston to move the mechanismn.


Edited by Panzermann, 02 November 2018 - 1041 AM.

  • 0

#18 rmgill

rmgill

    Strap-hanger

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,304 posts

Posted 02 November 2018 - 1057 AM







Edited by rmgill, 02 November 2018 - 1058 AM.

  • 0

#19 shep854

shep854

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,521 posts

Posted 02 November 2018 - 1213 PM

That makes sense. I had looked at rhe wiki before posting, but are boosters on shorty AKs the same thing?
  • 0

#20 T-44

T-44

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 582 posts

Posted 02 November 2018 - 1253 PM

I think they're more / just a conical type of flash hider.
  • 0