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British Army L85A3


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#21 bojan

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Posted 14 November 2018 - 2147 PM

 

Which French rifle was it based on? Simon is correct that the EM2 was adopted, so I was a century out :)

 

Well, not rifle itself (it is hard to find originality in the muzzle loaded percussion "rifled muskets"), but a Minie style bullet, or more exactly Boxer's modification of it.

As for EM2, sure was adopted but did not really see any service so it does not count.

For Brown Bess, everyone at a time copied Dutch (they were The Gunsmiths of the Europe at one moment) including Prussians, French and Russians, but with flintlock rifles it is even harded to tell what was original and what was borrowed due the extremely simple mechanism compared to a later weapons.

 

Then there are revolvers, where British lead a world for a while (Adams and Tranter were both light years above Colts of the same period), but decided that further technical development was not needed and kept same 1880s construction until WW2... But it was as British as it could be. :)

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#22 Chris Werb

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 1301 PM

Was the Minie rifle we had pre 1853 a foreign design, or just the projectile it shot?
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#23 bojan

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 1640 PM

Both projectile and rifling were French designed.
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#24 Gavin-Phillips

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 1542 PM

https://www.thefirea...apons-load-out/

 

Looking at the interesting article from the link that Chris posted previously, looks like the L86 LSW is going to be replaced by the L7/FN MAG GMPG?  Wouldn't that be like replacing an RPK-74 with a PKM?  

 

As far as the L86 goes, I must admit it does seem to be a bit of a strange design, having an LMG with the same magazine capacity as the standard assault rifle (30 rounds).  Even the Steyr AUG Hbar has a 42-round magazine for the LMG conversion with the longer barrel.


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#25 Chris Werb

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 1849 PM

https://www.thefirea...apons-load-out/

 

Looking at the interesting article from the link that Chris posted previously, looks like the L86 LSW is going to be replaced by the L7/FN MAG GMPG?  Wouldn't that be like replacing an RPK-74 with a PKM?  

 

As far as the L86 goes, I must admit it does seem to be a bit of a strange design, having an LMG with the same magazine capacity as the standard assault rifle (30 rounds).  Even the Steyr AUG Hbar has a 42-round magazine for the LMG conversion with the longer barrel.

 

The LSW was briefly reintroduced as a DMR - its replacement is the L129A1 DMR (an LMT 7.52x51 AR). The L7 replaces two Minimi Paras, which replaced two LSWs, which replaced one L7 :)  As for an LMG with a capacity the same as the standard rifle, the USMC seem to be OK with it having replaced the M249 with the M27. 


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#26 Simon Tan

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 2225 PM

Having nothing nice to say, I say nothing.
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#27 Gavin-Phillips

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 1224 PM

 


The LSW was briefly reintroduced as a DMR - its replacement is the L129A1 DMR (an LMT 7.52x51 AR). The L7 replaces two Minimi Paras, which replaced two LSWs, which replaced one L7 :)  As for an LMG with a capacity the same as the standard rifle, the USMC seem to be OK with it having replaced the M249 with the M27. 

 

 

 

 

A new idea becomes an old idea which then is released as a new idea again!  Thanks for the information, Chris.  I'd be interested to know just how well the LSW actually performed in a DMR role?  

 

The L7 looks a fairly substantial and heavy piece of kit to lug around the battlefield.  Its a shame the Minimi Para couldn't have been rechambered for a 7.62mm round?


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#28 Adam_S

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 1427 PM

Nice to see that after coming up against those pesky Boers, they've finally decided they need something with a bit more range.


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#29 Simon Tan

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 2144 PM

Mk48...aka Maximi. Disposable receivers. PK just betterer.
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#30 sunday

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 0443 AM

Mk48...aka Maximi. Disposable receivers. PK just betterer.

 

This?

 

https://www.thefirea...h-zmt-ukm-2000/


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#31 Simon Tan

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 0616 AM

Regular PK. Push through links are just less reliable as far as the action stroke. That is why PK can be light and reliable. Use pull out links when possible.
PK is going to be a science project some day. I have my cunning plan already.
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#32 Panzermann

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 1332 PM

Regular PK. Push through links are just less reliable as far as the action stroke. That is why PK can be light and reliable. Use pull out links when possible.
PK is going to be a science project some day. I have my cunning plan already.

 

But even in .308 a PK is more durable than a Minimi or Maximi.

 

 

 

How is durability with the south african SS-77 and its derivatives or the israeli Negev MG?


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#33 bojan

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 1609 PM

Bulgarian 7.62x51 PKM still uses pull-push.
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#34 Simon Tan

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 2100 PM

Have HKMod connectors shoved down your throat is why Britain is fail. 


Edited by Simon Tan, 22 November 2018 - 2100 PM.

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#35 Panzermann

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 1009 AM

When the customer does not ask for something else of course H&K sells their own mounting system. Vendor lock-in and all that.

 

 

 

 

 

Bulgarian 7.62x51 PKM still uses pull-push.

 

Does it? :huh:

 

 

edit:

 

 

it does, but needs a different belt.

 

I think the Arsenal MG M2 takes M13 and DM1 link belts. Adn thus must have been converted to push through. The MG1M is only offered in three line cartridge on the Arsenal website.

 

http://www.arsenal-b...machine-guns-26

http://www.arsenal-b...x51-mm-mg-m2-56


Edited by Panzermann, 23 November 2018 - 1012 AM.

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#36 bojan

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 1936 PM

There is also a Serbian mod that keeps pull-push and uses NATO standard belts.

http://www.nbinat.rs...ice/service-m84


Edited by bojan, 23 November 2018 - 1936 PM.

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#37 Simon Tan

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 2038 PM

Interesting. This uses the force of recoil stroke to run the cartridge back over the rear detent. Kalatch tractor style.
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#38 Panzermann

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 2100 PM

There is also a Serbian mod that keeps pull-push and uses NATO standard belts.

http://www.nbinat.rs...ice/service-m84

 

 

Oh, that in a PKT like form and I want that in my Leo2  ^_^ (one can dream)

 

 

Interesting that they have given up on the filled out stocks and use the typical PK stock with the cutout.


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#39 bojan

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 2216 PM

They are private company and use whatever someone requires.

They cooperated with Slovenian company Arex in "Rex Zero" pistol, but than again both companies were practically made by former Zastava people.


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#40 Simon Tan

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 0302 AM

I guessed that was the case. Can they get traction domestically?


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