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A New G3 Clone For The Us Market...


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#21 Simon Tan

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 2123 PM

Not clones. Parts kits.


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#22 Panzermann

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 2127 PM

 

If they function and the price point is right, they will sell.

 

They should but I get the feeling that you apply logic to an emotional topic. ;)

 

 

Ironically actual Made in Germany H&K G3 have not the most beautiful welds either.

 

 

 

 

Aren't you supposed not to polish the welds so one can see if they are well done?

 

 

Of course. But you could grind them flat afterwards, but I guess they skipped that in favour of meeting production goals. It is a rifle from the total war manufactured for the cold war gpone hot and they had to arm millions of soldiers if redland had attacked.


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#23 Dawes

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 2310 PM

Of the three "classic" Cold War battle rifles (G3, M-14, FAL) the G3 seems to have the reputation of being the most durable.


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#24 Simon Tan

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 0101 AM

?


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#25 Mistral

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 0309 AM

Handled two of them in service (G3 and FAL), I would not say more durable but the G3 was more conscript proof. the only thing they could break was the flimsy bipod legs. Never saw a bipod with the legs still attached.
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#26 bojan

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 0755 AM

G3 vs vz.58 vs AK vs AR-10 vs FAL during heavy fire:

All guns except FAL were in 7.62x39, FAL was 7.62x51:

 

Ability of rifles to withstand rapid fire (my summary)

Test 1:
1. 150 rounds (one ammo load) - 60 on rapid fire semi-auto, 60 on short (3-5 rounds) bursts, 30 with 3 x ~10 rounds bursts. Only pause during firing was time spent changing magazines.
2. Forced cooling - dunking a rifle in the barrel of water
3. 150 rounds, as 1
4. Forced cooling - in crushed ice (representing snow)
5. 150 rounds, as 1

 

AR-10 (7.62x39), AK, vz.58, G3 (7.62x39) passed. FAL (7.62x51) became inoperable on 393rd round fired.

Damage to guns - no warping of the barrel or the gas tube. No melting of the plastic parts, but some softening on AR-10 was noted.
FAL failed due the extractor breaking, damage was not easily repairable in the field.
Barrel erosion was within acceptable limits for this course of fire.

 

 

Test 2:

- 300 rounds ("reinforced" double ammo load), 180 rapid-fired semi, 90 in short (3-5 rounds) bursts, 30 in 3 x ~10 rounds bursts. For first 150 rounds (120 semi, 30 in short bursts) only pause was to change magazine. After 150 roundsthere as 15 seconds pause between mags.

 

AR-10, vz.58, AK, G3 passed. FAL failed after 291st round.
Damage to the guns:
Wooden handguard on AK and FAL smoked and were charred, vz.58 and AR-10 synthetic handguard noticeably softened and smoked. Neither of those however produced any problems when rifles cooled down. Handguards on all rifles became impossible to hold w/o gloves.
There was measurable barrel warping in all rifles, but rifles were still capable of required accuracy (30cm @ 100m), even through point of impact shifted due the barrel warping.
FAL again failed due the extractor damage.
Barrel erosion with all rifles was within acceptable limits for this test.

It was noted that FAL might have failed due the use of the more powerful ammo for which basic load was only 100 rounds, but it was also noted that G3 previously passed test in 7.62x51mm version also with 150 rounds basic load.


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#27 Colin

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 1346 PM

Handled two of them in service (G3 and FAL), I would not say more durable but the G3 was more conscript proof. the only thing they could break was the flimsy bipod legs. Never saw a bipod with the legs still attached.

There was very little to go wrong on a FN, never saw any issues with abuse or breakage.


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#28 shep854

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 1637 PM

The HK roller lock is considered by many to be 'self-adjusting' and better allowed for variations in ammo and rifle condition, whereas the FAL had to be manually adjusted, which can be a tedious procedure.


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#29 Colin

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 1646 PM

Not really, we set up for the ammo we had and then clicked the gas setting one way or another. With 20rd mags and a max of 5 mags at best, one did not plan on shooting vasts amounts in one engagement.


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#30 shep854

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 1751 PM

Not really, we set up for the ammo we had and then clicked the gas setting one way or another. With 20rd mags and a max of 5 mags at best, one did not plan on shooting vasts amounts in one engagement.

IOW, consistent ammo and rifle condition. :)  I understand that a big reason for the G3 was that FN was really not into the idea of the Boch building the Belgian design, so the CETME was kind of a runner-up, but feedback from third-world hellholes seems to be that the HK is more tolerant of neglect and abuse than the FAL.  Both are outstanding rifles to be sure; I'd like to get one of each to keep my M1A company. :)


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#31 T-44

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 0343 AM

G3 vs vz.58 vs AK vs AR-10 vs FAL during heavy fire:
All guns except FAL were in 7.62x39, FAL was 7.62x51:


Any pictures available of those AR-10 an G3 (and their magazines)?
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#32 bojan

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 0601 AM

Used AK pattern magazines.


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#33 T-44

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 0630 AM

Thanks
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#34 Markus Becker

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 1649 PM


Not really, we set up for the ammo we had and then clicked the gas setting one way or another. With 20rd mags and a max of 5 mags at best, one did not plan on shooting vasts amounts in one engagement.

IOW, consistent ammo and rifle condition. :)  I understand that a big reason for the G3 was that FN was really not into the idea of the Boch building the Belgian design, so the CETME was kind of a runner-up, but feedback from third-world hellholes seems to be that the HK is more tolerant of neglect and abuse than the FAL.  Both are outstanding rifles to be sure; I'd like to get one of each to keep my M1A company. :)

AFAIK it was the other way round. We didn't want to build the FAL. Which we used as the G1. Why would Belgium inject to us building it under license? It's still money for them.

Edited by Markus Becker, 09 February 2019 - 1650 PM.

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#35 Panzermann

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 0625 AM


AFAIK it was the other way round. We didn't want to build the FAL. Which we used as the G1. Why would Belgium inject to us building it under license? It's still money for them.

 

 

Both world wars.

 

But apart from that, the G3 is the cheaper to make rifle and no license fees, so that may have played a role as well.


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#36 sunday

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 0641 AM

 

 


AFAIK it was the other way round. We didn't want to build the FAL. Which we used as the G1. Why would Belgium inject to us building it under license? It's still money for them.

 

 

Both world wars.

 

But apart from that, the G3 is the cheaper to make rifle and no license fees, so that may have played a role as well.

 

 

There should have been license fees, but the licensee for sales outside Spain was a Dutch company that exchanged the license rights for a contract to supply 20mm ammunition to Luftwaffe.


Edited by sunday, 10 February 2019 - 0642 AM.

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#37 Markus Becker

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 2129 PM

 
Both world wars.


Seriously? Never let a grudge get in the way of profit. ... Is it just me or does that sound Ferengi? ;)
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#38 Panzermann

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 0331 AM

 

 
Both world wars.


Seriously? Never let a grudge get in the way of profit. ... Is it just me or does that sound Ferengi? ;)

 

 

a bit Ferengi like. :D

 

Well, the books were filled with orders and license agreements or at least curomers asking for license production like Canada and the UK, so I guess it was easy to say no.


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