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Poland Officially Requests F-35's


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#41 Nobu

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 1154 AM

Interesting how the press has not addressed this, particularly as the importance and use of lawfare as a continuation of state policy increases.
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#42 Adam Peter

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 0452 AM

Forget the enemies and their missiles/cms for a moment, the low rate of combat ready without constraint F-35 in US service is not a too big problem for a frontline country?

 

While I'm sure Poland will do everything to keep them at 100% readiness, they have much less monetary support, and the repair crew pool is shallow (maybe Brexit helps a little here)


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#43 Chris Werb

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 0924 AM

The roles the F-35 will fulfil for Poland are as follows:

 

1. Reinforce Poland's perception of itself as a Tier 1 technological nation.

2. Help secure continued US commitment by showing willing to purchase expensive US equipment for its own defence, and by

3. Enabling active participation in US led coalitions fighting in various largely irrelevant parts of the World.


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#44 Dawes

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 1048 AM

The roles the F-35 will fulfil for Poland are as follows:

 

1. Reinforce Poland's perception of itself as a Tier 1 technological nation.

2. Help secure continued US commitment by showing willing to purchase expensive US equipment for its own defence, and by

3. Enabling active participation in US led coalitions fighting in various largely irrelevant parts of the World.

(4) Looks quite nice on Lockheed Martin's quarterly report.


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#45 Nobu

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 1106 AM

I think they are making progress on (1), but still have work to do in that regard. 

 

(5) Exposing the F-35's cutting edge-level of technology to engineers working hard to accomplish (1).


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#46 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 1231 PM

6 Forcing Russia to embark on yet another arms race that it cant afford, forcing the collapse of the Putin Regime.

 

Its just win win win all round.


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#47 Josh

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 1232 PM

The roles the F-35 will fulfil for Poland are as follows:
 
1. Reinforce Poland's perception of itself as a Tier 1 technological nation.
2. Help secure continued US commitment by showing willing to purchase expensive US equipment for its own defence, and by
3. Enabling active participation in US led coalitions fighting in various largely irrelevant parts of the World.


The fly away cost of an F-35 is fairly competitive now, while providing capability other aircraft cant duplicate. Are you suggesting another a/c would be preferable or that any a/c purchase is pointless?
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#48 Nobu

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 2049 PM

6 Forcing Russia to embark on yet another arms race that it cant afford, forcing the collapse of the Putin Regime.
 
Its just win win win all round.


It does have the benefit of having been successful in the past. I suppose it is also a better choice than purchasing LCS things for the Polish Navy.
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#49 Chris Werb

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 0554 AM

 

The roles the F-35 will fulfil for Poland are as follows:
 
1. Reinforce Poland's perception of itself as a Tier 1 technological nation.
2. Help secure continued US commitment by showing willing to purchase expensive US equipment for its own defence, and by
3. Enabling active participation in US led coalitions fighting in various largely irrelevant parts of the World.


The fly away cost of an F-35 is fairly competitive now, while providing capability other aircraft cant duplicate. Are you suggesting another a/c would be preferable or that any a/c purchase is pointless?

 

 

The latter. A limited number of F-16s (and they have a respectable quantity of very good, low mileage examples already) is fine for airspace policing and bombing insurgents in US-led bunfights.


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#50 Chris Werb

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 0556 AM

6 Forcing Russia to embark on yet another arms race that it cant afford, forcing the collapse of the Putin Regime.

 

Its just win win win all round.

 

If you listen to the commentary coming out of Russia, they are all about negating enemy capabilities assymetrically, and always have been. They don't have to buy a Gen 5 fighter plane for every one Poland buys when they can easily nagate them by other, vastly cheaper and safer means.


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#51 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 0901 AM

The traditional response was to buy 2 of every one we buy. They cant do that anymore because they cant afford it, but the development of Su57, their cruise missiles, their surface warships etc etc etc, its all keep up with the joneses. They talk about asymmetric, but their force structure sure doesnt demonstrate much of it. They only asymmetric thing they have truly done is hacking (which any 12 year old in Russia apparently can do) and hiring private military contractors. Judging by how unsuccessful they were in Chechnya, Sudan and even Ukraine, it looks like a poor substitute to me.

 

Russia isn simply going to ignore poland arming up. They will try to match it no matter what they say. They are scared of the poles for past transgressions.


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#52 glenn239

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 1101 AM

 I think this US-Polish axis emerging stronger and stronger in NATO is symptomatic of a growing split in NATO and increasing Polish strength and influence in Eastern Europe may cause friction more with Germany and Ukraine than with Russia.


Edited by glenn239, 05 October 2019 - 1102 AM.

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#53 Nobu

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 1216 PM

Interestingly, this would also point to decreasing American strength and influence in Western Europe. 


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#54 Josh

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 0006 AM

 

6 Forcing Russia to embark on yet another arms race that it cant afford, forcing the collapse of the Putin Regime.

 

Its just win win win all round.

 

If you listen to the commentary coming out of Russia, they are all about negating enemy capabilities assymetrically, and always have been. They don't have to buy a Gen 5 fighter plane for every one Poland buys when they can easily nagate them by other, vastly cheaper and safer means.

 

 

I don't disagree, but on the flip side they create entire new classes of strategic weapons that seem, from a western point of view, utterly pointless. I've no doubt they could mother fuck Poland at the drop of the hat and invade the Baltics. But I doubt they would want any US blow back. I agree Europe should have its own cruise missiles as a deterrent. But you kinda have to assume NATO (the US) backs out if you assume Russian cruise missile attacks are compltely without consequence. I'm not saying you're wrong, just get your own cruise missiles.


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#55 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 0142 AM

I dont think the US is going to back out of NATO now, I think Trump has more important things to worry about. long may it continue.


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