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When Defending Cops Becomes Impossible


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#461 Murph

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 1131 AM

The leftists and Democrats want more of this stuff so that the normals get scared and agree to whatever "security" measures the Dems demand, including giving up the ability to resist their totalitarian state for some imagined "security".  The disaster of Democrat controlled areas is all part of their master plan, and that includes neutering police, until the time comes to go all "Running Man".  


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#462 Murph

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 1134 AM

Well Governor Abbott signed the bill outlawing Red Light Camera (AKA revenue enhancement devices), and the usual suspects are screaming a the loss of revenue.  The gotcha with Red Light Cameras is they are not criminal but civil penalties, so they can increase them exponentially if you do not pay up right away, and the DO NOT have to prove you were driving, just that your car was in the camera field of view.  These things were evil, my boss turned them down cold, and refused to even allow them to give him a presentation on them.  https://www.ksat.com...d-light-cameras


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#463 MiloMorai

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 1138 AM

So now taxes go up to pay for the cops as the cops lost a revenue source.
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#464 Murph

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 1142 AM

So now taxes go up to pay for the cops as the cops lost a revenue source.

I hope not, but most mayors will now demand their police departments write more tickets and the city judges make the fines stiffer.


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#465 Murph

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 1145 AM

I hated Red light cameras because the turned innocent until proven guilty as far on its head has Mueller has done.  Plus it destroys probable cause.  Also since it was a civil not criminal fine, you had a heck of a time fighting the citation.  They were just wrong all around, they were never about traffic safety, they were 100% about revenue, and that is how they were sold to municipalities."Look how much money we can make you (and us since we get a cut)".


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#466 Skywalkre

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 1838 PM

 

There's also the issue, which I was referring to in the second bolded bit, of the attitude of so many police out there that it's "us vs them."  They're looking at everyone that's not a cop as a potential criminal, threat, whatever... instead of as another citizen.  This issue has been around for decades now.  Sadly it doesn't seem to be going away.


That problem is so universal, it simply has to be an integral part of the culture and training; if you're not a cop, you're a suspect.

Now IMHO, that culture comes from two things:
- a pathetically bad grasp of statistics and data analysis,
- a culture in which large swaths of the general population have a tribal mentality rather than a Judeo-Christian one.

We're not going to get the policing industry we want, until we have a general population that wants both low crime and fair policing. Its gonna take a lot more prisons and a lot less immigration to do so.

 

 

Why? 

 

We already have one of the highest incarceration rates in all the world (and far more than other first world nations).  Why do we really need to be throwing more folks in prison?  As someone mentioned several posts back our prisons are not meant to rehabilitate.  If anything they're networking/training ground for criminals.  I've heard arguments that if anything we need to look at who we're sending into prison, where, and for how long and then send less folks there.  We could possibly cut costs with no increase in crime and prevent this networking/training/indoctrination by keeping some folks out (some argue we could lower crime with this approach).  Unfortunately far too many Americans have a knee jerk reaction of 'hurr durr soft on crime' when anything like that gets mentioned.

 

As for immigration, again, I'm not seeing why we need less.  Canada brings in more than we do per capita but apparently do it 'right' by focusing on getting higher educated immigrants (something Trump apparently has been pushing and I'm in full agreement with).  Even then there's nothing wrong with bringing folks all over the spectrum.  Immigrants able to fill jobs at all tiers are important and immigrants historically have a lot more impetus to start businesses than native-born.  As a whole they're a net boost to the economy (if you do it right).


Edited by Skywalkre, 03 June 2019 - 2014 PM.

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#467 rmgill

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 2128 PM

Why?


Ever have an argument with a woman who wants to have her cake and eat it too but blames you for not being able to make both happen? It's like that.  

We already have one of the highest incarceration rates in all the world (and far more than other first world nations).  Why do we really need to be throwing more folks in prison?


Depends. What's the crime. What's the sentence? Arguably, violent felons aren't incarcerated enough. The data shows that. The prisons ARE not meant to rehabilitate but they're being treated, insofar as the Parole system is concerned as if they do when they clearly do not. The simple fact that someone can be paroled and violate parole MORE than one time is evidence of that.

After a violation of Parole one should NOT be given a second chance, let alone a 5th or 8th or god forbid a 10th chance. It rather ignores the whole concept of what parole means.

 

As for immigration, again, I'm not seeing why we need less.  Canada brings in more than we do per capita but apparently do it 'right' by focusing on getting higher educated immigrants (something Trump apparently has been pushing and I'm in full agreement with).  Even then there's nothing wrong with bringing folks all over the spectrum.  Immigrants able to fill jobs at all tiers are important and immigrants historically have a lot more impetus to start businesses than native-born.  As a whole they're a net boost to the economy (if you do it right).


From a certain perspective, we do NOT need to be bringing in so much that we depress wages substantially in ANY of our markets unless we're majorly hurting for that sort of talent. See Eric Weinstein's points on this issue. https://www.inetecon...mplete_INET.pdf
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#468 Ivanhoe

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 2316 PM

Why? 
 
We already have one of the highest incarceration rates in all the world (and far more than other first world nations).


Why?

11217607.0002.206-00000002.jpg

 

Why do we really need to be throwing more folks in prison?  As someone mentioned several posts back our prisons are not meant to rehabilitate.  If anything they're networking/training ground for criminals.  I've heard arguments that if anything we need to look at who we're sending into prison, where, and for how long and then send less folks there.  We could possibly cut costs with no increase in crime and prevent this networking/training/indoctrination by keeping some folks out (some argue we could lower crime with this approach).  Unfortunately far too many Americans have a knee jerk reaction of 'hurr durr soft on crime' when anything like that gets mentioned.


An amusing theory, but that's the kind of amusing theory from academics that led to the big bounce in violent crime rates in the 1960s. 

 

https://quod.lib.umi...n;view=fulltext

 

In the United States from 1962 to 1979, the likelihood that a crime would lead to an arrest dropped from 0.32 to 0.18, the likelihood that an arrest would lead to imprisonment dropped from 0.32 to 0.14, and the likelihood that a crime would lead to imprisonment fell from 0.10 to 0.02, a factor of five.[10]

 

By the time a thug has first been sentenced as an adult he has already been exposed to a wide range of violent behavior. Its idiotic to think J. Random Offender won't encounter the 44th Street Ballers if he is sentenced to probation. He lives in the same neighborhood, went to the same schools, etc. 

 

On this subject, it is instructive to talk to cops and COs. And for that matter, psychologists who have worked in state mental hospitals. 


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#469 DB

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 0110 AM

Is not having the president call you a coward enough? Apparently not.

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...canada-48521988


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#470 MiloMorai

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 0420 AM

Trump - I would have run into Florida school unarmed

​

Sure he would have, he who is a draft dodger.


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#471 Murph

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 0459 AM

Trump - I would have run into Florida school unarmed

​

Sure he would have, he who is a draft dodger.

You never know what someone will do until the time is upon them.  Bravery is a gift that you never know if it will come when you need it or not.


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#472 Murph

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 0500 AM

Is not having the president call you a coward enough? Apparently not.

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...canada-48521988

Apparently Florida has some strong rules that he violated.  The perjury thing is very curious though.


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#473 Murph

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 0603 AM

I love body cameras.  They make my job so much easier, and remove any doubt about what happened at a scene.  Video and audio just takes the mystery out of everything.   It makes Internal Affairs investigations just so much better and clear cut.  


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#474 NickM

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 0833 AM

Trump - I would have run into Florida school unarmed

​

Sure he would have, he who is a draft dodger.

 

Of course laddie of course; what was his draft number? AND was it picked? AND did he flake? IF you lied or exaggerated say you're "Sore-y" and carry out an act of contrition.


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#475 Paul G.

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 1120 AM


Trump - I would have run into Florida school unarmed


â


Sure he would have, he who is a draft dodger.
 
Of course laddie of course; what was his draft number? AND was it picked? AND did he flake? IF you lied or exaggerated say you're "Sore-y" and carry out an act of contrition.

It wasn't picked because he had a medical deferment due to bone spurs in his feet. That after four educational deferments. So five total.
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#476 NickM

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 2147 PM

 

 

 

Trump - I would have run into Florida school unarmed


â


Sure he would have, he who is a draft dodger.
 
Of course laddie of course; what was his draft number? AND was it picked? AND did he flake? IF you lied or exaggerated say you're "Sore-y" and carry out an act of contrition.

It wasn't picked because he had a medical deferment due to bone spurs in his feet. That after four educational deferments. So five total.

 

 

Plumping up your own sock's post? Ironic. Anyway it NOT DODGING...say you're Sore-y...


Edited by NickM, 05 June 2019 - 2157 PM.

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#477 Paul G.

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 0501 AM


 

 

 
Trump - I would have run into Florida school unarmed

â
Sure he would have, he who is a draft dodger.

 
Of course laddie of course; what was his draft number? AND was it picked? AND did he flake? IF you lied or exaggerated say you're "Sore-y" and carry out an act of contrition.
It wasn't picked because he had a medical deferment due to bone spurs in his feet. That after four educational deferments. So five total.
 
 
Plumping up your own sock's post? Ironic. Anyway it NOT DODGING...say you're Sore-y...

Sock? Shit you might as well be a bag o' tube socks, you Trumpers are all indistinguishable with the same talking points.

So you never thought Bill Clinton was a draft dodger...right? No, its not dodging if your daddy gets you a bogus medical deferments. Is that REALLY were we are now?
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#478 Murph

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 0530 AM

Body Cameras are great, they also have the side effect of derailing a media narrative.  I really support body cameras.  They catch when we do wrong, but they also catch when we do right.  Win/Win in my book.


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#479 Skywalkre

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 2157 PM


As for immigration, again, I'm not seeing why we need less.  Canada brings in more than we do per capita but apparently do it 'right' by focusing on getting higher educated immigrants (something Trump apparently has been pushing and I'm in full agreement with).  Even then there's nothing wrong with bringing folks all over the spectrum.  Immigrants able to fill jobs at all tiers are important and immigrants historically have a lot more impetus to start businesses than native-born.  As a whole they're a net boost to the economy (if you do it right).


From a certain perspective, we do NOT need to be bringing in so much that we depress wages substantially in ANY of our markets unless we're majorly hurting for that sort of talent. See Eric Weinstein's points on this issue. https://www.inetecon...mplete_INET.pdf

 

 

So what's Canada doing right that we're not?  As mentioned they bring in more immigrants per capita than we do and apparently a higher % of skilled ones.  Another aspect to consider is that many of these immigrants are leaving their home countries for good reason.  If they can't come to the US they'll go elsewhere.  Given all the economic benefits of immigration and the rising role of tech in everything economic it would seem worth it to grab as many of them as we can (it's possible short-term economic hits could be made up for down the road).


Edited by Skywalkre, 06 June 2019 - 2216 PM.

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#480 Ivanhoe

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 2236 PM

11-627-m2017028-eng.jpg


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