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When Defending Cops Becomes Impossible


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#521 Brian Kennedy

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 1209 PM

Oakland PD is kind of an interesting case study. Their officers make very high salaries (average $120k not counting overtime, which is middle class even for the Bay Area), but that results in the city only being able to support a pretty small department (700-odd cops for a city of over 400,000, which frankly has a lot of criminal types). The result is that murders get investigated fast as f*ck and very competently, but they basically ignore property crimes etc. The latter is not an exaggeration -- if your house gets burgled it's basically understood that Oakland PD will show up 8 hours later if at all, and 911 is literally a joke here.

 

Not to mention the Celeste Guap incident, which apparently involved a hefty portion of the Oakland PD having sex with the same prostitute. No idea how that works! https://slate.com/ne...-explained.html

 

edit to add: it's interesting to compare it to NYPD, where the salaries tend to be lower (for pretty much the same cost of living) but there are a lot more police officers per capita, and NYC residents tend to regard police officers quite favorably (more foot patrols is probably part of it). The younger cops get, uh, other benefits than salary -- basically your average 25-year-old officer is living at his mom's house in Queens, but women are throwing themselves at him when he goes out on a Friday.


Edited by Brian Kennedy, 14 July 2019 - 1219 PM.

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#522 Jeff

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 1644 PM

 

PSA: If you throw Molotov cocktails, you might get shot...dead.   So don't do it: https://hotair.com/a...probably-shoot/

 

 

This should really go without saying, but before anyone starts unloading on the cops we should deal with a dose of reality. I don’t care if you are a nutjob with a right-wing political agenda, a nutjob with a left-wing ax to grind, or just a random nutjob with some screws loose. If you show up at a government building with a rifle and incendiary devices and begin torching the place, the cops are going to be there quickly. And if you don’t comply with their instructions, they will shoot you. This guy had burned up at least one car, set fire to a couple of buildings and was attempting to detonate a large propane tank. What did he expect was going to happen?

If you didn’t hear about this, it probably shouldn’t be too surprising. Yes, there are a couple of headlines in the major newspapers and I did see a few segments on CNN covering it. But at least from the pieces I watched, they were almost entirely who, what, where, when stories, absent any great degree of analysis and discussion. I wonder why that is?

Every time some whacko with a MAGA hat so much as takes a swing at someone, we’re treated to hours of endless analysis about how Donald Trump’s violent rhetoric is inspiring people to do harm. But now, after elected Democratic officials, including some presidential candidates, have spent weeks and months vilifying Immigration and Customs Enforcement, accusing them of running concentration camps and demanding that they be shunned by polite society, I take it we’re forbidden from wondering if all of that rhetoric had anything to do with this jackwagon trying to blow up an ICE detention center.

Seriously, folks. Aside from a couple of new polls dropping, a brief blackout in New York City, and some flooding down south, there wasn’t all that much news breaking this morning. And yet I don’t think CNN has spent more than ten minutes total on this attack since I turned it on at six o’clock this morning. Where’s all the deep, penetrating analysis?

 

 

According to his manifesto, what a crock of shit romantic name to give the rantings of a nutjob, he felt it was his duty to attack the "concentration camps". Now where have I heard that phrase recently?


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#523 Tim the Tank Nut

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 0934 AM

Google and Co. will bury this one fast


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#524 rmgill

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 2221 PM

 

PSA: If you throw Molotov cocktails, you might get shot...dead.   So don't do it: https://hotair.com/a...probably-shoot/

 

Gosh, who could have seen that coming? 


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#525 Panzermann

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 1532 PM

Spoiler

According to his manifesto, what a crock of shit romantic name to give the rantings of a nutjob, he felt it was his duty to attack the "concentration camps". Now where have I heard that phrase recently?


AOC will only have echoed what she had heard elsewhere. She is an amplifier at best.

Edited by Panzermann, 17 July 2019 - 1532 PM.

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#526 Murph

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 1941 PM

Actually heard today at our suspects lawyers office: When I tell you to shut the F**k up, you need to shut the f**k up! His attorney to the client while we were interviewing our suspect. Never a good sign for the suspect when his lawyer has to say that during the interview with a Texas Ranger present.
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#527 JWB

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 1047 AM

Two people were killed in a botched drug raid. Investigators say the official story was a lie.

 

HOUSTON — Nobody disputes the raid’s grisly toll. Four officers were shot, and two people inside the home were dead, along with their dog, after narcotics officers broke down the door of a house in the outskirts of Houston.

Police had been given permission to sweep the house by a judge on the suspicion that heroin trafficking was taking place inside.

But disclosures in the months following the Jan. 28 raid have raised questions about the evidence used to justify it, the events that took place that afternoon and the motivations of some of the officers involved. These are questions police have struggled to answer, as national attention homes in on Houston amid a larger debate over policing tactics.

The police officer who led the raid retired abruptly in March, about a month after the police chief accused him of lying to justify it. Another officer retired around the same time. And questions about the integrity of these two officers were so significant that local prosecutors decided to review 14,000 incidents they were involved in, including 2,200 criminal cases — an unusual step reserved typically for questions of severe misconduct.

 

https://www.washingt...m=.f6b81a5705bf


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#528 Murph

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 1052 AM

Two people were killed in a botched drug raid. Investigators say the official story was a lie.

 

HOUSTON — Nobody disputes the raid’s grisly toll. Four officers were shot, and two people inside the home were dead, along with their dog, after narcotics officers broke down the door of a house in the outskirts of Houston.

Police had been given permission to sweep the house by a judge on the suspicion that heroin trafficking was taking place inside.

But disclosures in the months following the Jan. 28 raid have raised questions about the evidence used to justify it, the events that took place that afternoon and the motivations of some of the officers involved. These are questions police have struggled to answer, as national attention homes in on Houston amid a larger debate over policing tactics.

The police officer who led the raid retired abruptly in March, about a month after the police chief accused him of lying to justify it. Another officer retired around the same time. And questions about the integrity of these two officers were so significant that local prosecutors decided to review 14,000 incidents they were involved in, including 2,200 criminal cases — an unusual step reserved typically for questions of severe misconduct.

 

https://www.washingt...m=.f6b81a5705bf

This is what usually happens when corrupt cops do wrong, everything they have done is now tainted.


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#529 Ivanhoe

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 1115 AM

This is what usually happens when corrupt cops do wrong, everything their department has done is now tainted.


FIFY

This is why I maintain that LEOs who use "instinct" or "intuition" as PC are flat-out liars. Other LEOs in HPD had been around that GD felon for years and obviously never suspected a thing. Apparently there weren't even anonymous complaints against him.

 

Too many  similar situations where a career LEO works in a department for 10+ years while committing various felonies, and not a single co-worker notices. Intuition my ass.

 


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#530 Murph

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 1128 AM

 

This is what usually happens when corrupt cops do wrong, everything their department has done is now tainted.


FIFY

This is why I maintain that LEOs who use "instinct" or "intuition" as PC are flat-out liars. Other LEOs in HPD had been around that GD felon for years and obviously never suspected a thing. Apparently there weren't even anonymous complaints against him.

 

Too many  similar situations where a career LEO works in a department for 10+ years while committing various felonies, and not a single co-worker notices. Intuition my ass.

 

 

Yeah, I have used the phrase "Training and Experience" both in affidavits and on the stand, but it is always backed up by solid probable cause.  Plus in my department warrants go through a multi-person review before it ever goes to the judge, and that includes the County Attorney reviewing it.  


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#531 Ivanhoe

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 1249 PM

 

 

This is what usually happens when corrupt cops do wrong, everything their department has done is now tainted.


FIFY

This is why I maintain that LEOs who use "instinct" or "intuition" as PC are flat-out liars. Other LEOs in HPD had been around that GD felon for years and obviously never suspected a thing. Apparently there weren't even anonymous complaints against him.

 

Too many  similar situations where a career LEO works in a department for 10+ years while committing various felonies, and not a single co-worker notices. Intuition my ass.

 

 

Yeah, I have used the phrase "Training and Experience" both in affidavits and on the stand, but it is always backed up by solid probable cause.  Plus in my department warrants go through a multi-person review before it ever goes to the judge, and that includes the County Attorney reviewing it.  

 

 

That seems to be a common refrain in these cases, where a dirty LEO builds an exceptional track record of arrests and convictions, to the point where nbody asks any questions.

 

Does your county Attorney handle prosecutions, or only tort cases defending the county? Because if its the latter, that is absolutely brilliant.


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#532 Murph

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 1308 PM

This is what usually happens when corrupt cops do wrong, everything their department has done is now tainted.

FIFY
This is why I maintain that LEOs who use "instinct" or "intuition" as PC are flat-out liars. Other LEOs in HPD had been around that GD felon for years and obviously never suspected a thing. Apparently there weren't even anonymous complaints against him.
 
Too many  similar situations where a career LEO works in a department for 10+ years while committing various felonies, and not a single co-worker notices. Intuition my ass.
Yeah, I have used the phrase "Training and Experience" both in affidavits and on the stand, but it is always backed up by solid probable cause.  Plus in my department warrants go through a multi-person review before it ever goes to the judge, and that includes the County Attorney reviewing it.
 
That seems to be a common refrain in these cases, where a dirty LEO builds an exceptional track record of arrests and convictions, to the point where nbody asks any questions.
 
Does your county Attorney handle prosecutions, or only tort cases defending the county? Because if its the latter, that is absolutely brilliant.

They handle both criminal and civil.
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#533 rmgill

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 1715 PM

Yeah, I have used the phrase "Training and Experience" both in affidavits and on the stand, but it is always backed up by solid probable cause.  Plus in my department warrants go through a multi-person review before it ever goes to the judge, and that includes the County Attorney reviewing it.


Best justification i heard of for PC for a drug related vehicular stop was for a suspect car driving North on I75 through georgia just below the speed limit and with out of state plates.

Sing it with me, “one of these things is not like the others...”

Its sort of a given that the speed limit on I85 and I75 is the same as the highway number...or somewhere there abouts..
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#534 Murph

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 1901 PM

 

Yeah, I have used the phrase "Training and Experience" both in affidavits and on the stand, but it is always backed up by solid probable cause.  Plus in my department warrants go through a multi-person review before it ever goes to the judge, and that includes the County Attorney reviewing it.


Best justification i heard of for PC for a drug related vehicular stop was for a suspect car driving North on I75 through georgia just below the speed limit and with out of state plates.

Sing it with me, “one of these things is not like the others...”

Its sort of a given that the speed limit on I85 and I75 is the same as the highway number...or somewhere there abouts..

 

I've heard that as well, driving too cautiously can be just as big a give away as driving like a bat out of h*ll.  


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#535 rmgill

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 0232 AM

Probably gets the hopes up until the officer walks up to the suspect car and it's someone like Clara Peller

 


Edited by rmgill, 29 July 2019 - 0232 AM.

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#536 Murph

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 0509 AM

Probably gets the hopes up until the officer walks up to the suspect car and it's someone like Clara Peller

 

It has been done before.  Some of the stuff I have seen or been told on traffic stops is comedy gold.


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#537 Skywalkre

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 1924 PM

 

Yeah, I have used the phrase "Training and Experience" both in affidavits and on the stand, but it is always backed up by solid probable cause.  Plus in my department warrants go through a multi-person review before it ever goes to the judge, and that includes the County Attorney reviewing it.


Best justification i heard of for PC for a drug related vehicular stop was for a suspect car driving North on I75 through georgia just below the speed limit and with out of state plates.

Sing it with me, “one of these things is not like the others...”

Its sort of a given that the speed limit on I85 and I75 is the same as the highway number...or somewhere there abouts..

 

 

How often did they do that and find nothing?  I'd be livid if I got pulled over for going just under the speed limit.  The above will be me in a few weeks when I drive up to UT to see a friend in a car with CA plates (most likely, because all rentals seem to have CA plates).  I've only done the drive once before and certainly don't know what's the norm up there like I do here at home.

 

I'm reminded of the book I posted about a few months back where researchers looked at data in one of the Carolinas of all traffic stops and discovered Blacks were being pulled over far more often than any other group yet arrests were far lower as a % of those stops.  This was most likely the case because of 'training and experience', 'intuition', 'gut feeling', etc.  The data showed whatever the reason it didn't pan out to be accurate.


Edited by Skywalkre, 29 July 2019 - 1925 PM.

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#538 GregShaw

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 2016 PM

You do less than 85 between Cedar City and Provo you better be in the right lane cause everybody will be passing you. 


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#539 GregShaw

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 2020 PM

CA plates are one thing, just don't have Lakers stickers or you're guaranteed to be pulled over.


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#540 JWB

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 1427 PM

Body camera video shows deputy shoot Simpsonville man in his home.

https://www.wyff4.co...le-man/28537428


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