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#61 Murph

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 2021 PM

Waht do you mean?  Mint 18 is more "windows" looking than any other I have used. 

Visual Interface and intuitive - which includes respecting existing conventions - is the most important thing today.

 

That is the thing that made and still makes Linux loose to Windows. The people that developed  Linux does not grasp that common people have no problem taking a learning  on an OS but the way that learning is done is crucial.

That learning is what can be called holistic, it is the interaction with OS that is the learning.  Is is like a children learning a language. You don't send a children of 1 year to school.


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#62 TTK Ciar

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 2156 PM

Aye, Linux developers do not develop the user interface. The user interface is split out into its own layers -- the windowing system (X11 or Wayland) and the window manager (of which there are dozens). An entirely different set of developers develop each of the window managers. The window manager determines the look and feel of the user interface, and they range from extremely Windows-like to not Windows-like at all.

Cinnamon, the default window manager for Linux Mint, is very Windows-like. The typical Windows user shouldn't have much trouble just sitting down and using it.

1280px-Linux_Mint_17_(Qiana)_Cinnamon.pn

Android has its own, proprietary window manager with a very different look-and-feel. And Ubuntu Linux's is just wacky.

My wife will likely never touch Linux in her life, as she has only seen me use it with fvwm, a fairly simple window manager from the 1990's. I really should set up a spare machine with a more modern desktop environment so she can see that Linux can be something other than mysterious black-on-white boxes.

muh_desktop.png

I like my 1990's window manager, though .. it does everything I need a window manager to do, and it will remain simple and sane forever.
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#63 lucklucky

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 0917 AM

 

Waht do you mean?  Mint 18 is more "windows" looking than any other I have used. 

Visual Interface and intuitive - which includes respecting existing conventions - is the most important thing today.

 

That is the thing that made and still makes Linux loose to Windows. The people that developed  Linux does not grasp that common people have no problem taking a learning  on an OS but the way that learning is done is crucial.

That learning is what can be called holistic, it is the interaction with OS that is the learning.  Is is like a children learning a language. You don't send a children of 1 year to school.

 

 

No doubt, just pointing that Linux lost to Windows because it only arrived to a minimal competent visual interface recently say 3-5 years ago.


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#64 Ivanhoe

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 1055 AM

What's kind of ironic is that, for years, one of my gripes with GUI Linux is that system administration/customization utilities were scattered around the menu system.

 

Now, Windows 10 has some stuff in Control Panel, some stuff in Settings, some stuff in the All Programs menu. Going the wrong direction i.t.o. complexity.


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#65 CT96

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 1228 PM

Visual Interface and intuitive - which includes respecting existing conventions - is the most important thing today.
 
That is the thing that made and still makes Linux loose to Windows. The people that developed  Linux does not grasp that common people have no problem taking a learning  on an OS but the way that learning is done is crucial.
That learning is what can be called holistic, it is the interaction with OS that is the learning.  Is is like a children learning a language. You don't send a children of 1 year to school.


As far as I see it, Mint is every bit as intuitive as win 7. At least compared to 8, 8.1 and 10.

I have set win users who didn't want to move to 10 up with Mint 18 (here'so the install cd, boot from CD and follow instructions) and they are happy with it. Much happier than with 10.


I know ithat is cliche, but the Linux Desktop really is here.
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#66 Murph

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 1551 PM

True, and the Leet Haxors did not want it to appeal to the masses since they wanted Linux/Unix/BSD to remain an exclusive club for computer geeks.  Linux could have, and should have been where we are today, 5-10 years ago IMHO, and it was held by by short sighted hackers and unix geeks.

 

 

 

 

Waht do you mean?  Mint 18 is more "windows" looking than any other I have used. 

Visual Interface and intuitive - which includes respecting existing conventions - is the most important thing today.

 

That is the thing that made and still makes Linux loose to Windows. The people that developed  Linux does not grasp that common people have no problem taking a learning  on an OS but the way that learning is done is crucial.

That learning is what can be called holistic, it is the interaction with OS that is the learning.  Is is like a children learning a language. You don't send a children of 1 year to school.

 

 

No doubt, just pointing that Linux lost to Windows because it only arrived to a minimal competent visual interface recently say 3-5 years ago.

 


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#67 Murph

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 0628 AM

I can't load it onto my desktop system.  I tried via USB and DVD and no joy.  I tried older versions, no joy.  It will boot to the loading screen, and then the monitor turns off, and it just hangs.  No idea.  But my desktop system is old, I mean really old.


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#68 Murph

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 1113 AM

I am thinking of Mint 18 XFCE edition on Lupe's old HP G6 laptop with 3 gb of RAM, and adding a MX300 Crucial drive to it.  I want to try XFCE.


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#69 TTK Ciar

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 0017 AM

Slackware ships with XFCE as an option, and it's traditionally very good with older hardware. You might want to give it a shot.

Slackware 14.1 and 14.2 are in many ways very similar, so if you run into hardware support problems with 14.2, give 14.1 a shot. I ended up doing something similar with 14.0 vs 14.1 (14.1's kernel had problems with an older laptop's builtin wifi, but 14.0 worked flawlessly).
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#70 Murph

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 0606 AM

I am nowhere ready for Slackware!  The most difficult of the Distros, for gurus only.  I am at the upper end of my competence with Mint.

Slackware ships with XFCE as an option, and it's traditionally very good with older hardware. You might want to give it a shot.

Slackware 14.1 and 14.2 are in many ways very similar, so if you run into hardware support problems with 14.2, give 14.1 a shot. I ended up doing something similar with 14.0 vs 14.1 (14.1's kernel had problems with an older laptop's builtin wifi, but 14.0 worked flawlessly).


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#71 Murph

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 2113 PM

I checked and with the SSD my specs are:

 

[email protected]achine ~ $ inxi -Fxz
System:    Host: Murphs-linux-machine Kernel: 4.4.0-45-generic x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 5.4.0)
           Desktop: Cinnamon 3.0.7 (Gtk 3.18.9-1ubuntu3.1)
           Distro: Linux Mint 18 Sarah
Machine:   System: HP (portable) product: HP Pavilion x360 m3 Convertible v: Type1ProductConfigId
           Mobo: HP model: 81A7 v: 52.24 Bios: Insyde v: F.06 date: 07/07/2016
CPU:       Dual core Intel Core i3-6100U (-HT-MCP-) cache: 3072 KB
           flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 9215
           clock speeds: max: 2300 MHz 1: 499 MHz 2: 499 MHz 3: 766 MHz
           4: 811 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Intel Sky Lake Integrated Graphics bus-ID: 00:02.0
           Display Server: X.Org 1.18.4 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
           Resolution: [email protected]
           GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel HD Graphics 520 (Skylake GT2)
           GLX Version: 3.0 Mesa 11.2.0 Direct Rendering: Yes
Audio:     Card Intel Sunrise Point-LP HD Audio
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1f.3
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.4.0-45-generic
Network:   Card: Intel Wireless 3165 driver: iwlwifi bus-ID: 01:00.0
           IF: wlo1 state: up mac: <filter>
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 275.1GB (35.6% used)
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: Crucial_CT275MX3 size: 275.1GB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 64G used: 31G (51%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda3
           ID-2: swap-1 size: 68.72GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda4
RAID:      No RAID devices: /proc/mdstat, md_mod kernel module present
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 34.0C mobo: 33.0C
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A
Info:      Processes: 195 Uptime: 26 min Memory: 623.6/5855.9MB
           Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 5.4.0
           Client: Shell (bash 4.3.421) inxi: 2.2.35 

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#72 CT96

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 2156 PM

hmmm.... I started playing with slackware some 20+ years ago. I got stuff working, but I couldn't do what I needed to for school with it, and the dual-boot was just too expensive for me at the time.

 

Eventually moved to an OpenBSD firewall server, with my regular PCs behind that firewall; of course now I run Mint on my laptop, CentOS on my core server, a NAS, and I have lost count of how many adjacent systems..... but then, I'm not a poor starving college student, and this is the sort of thing I do for a living.

 

Even the word Slackware takes me back. I doubt they were even on the same release number system then that they are now (though I think it was 2).


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#73 TTK Ciar

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 0050 AM

hmmm.... I started playing with slackware some 20+ years ago. I got stuff working, but I couldn't do what I needed to for school with it, and the dual-boot was just too expensive for me at the time.


Wow, you were using Slackware before I was! My first was Slackware 3.0, from the CD that came in the back cover of "Linux Unleashed".
 

Even the word Slackware takes me back. I doubt they were even on the same release number system then that they are now (though I think it was 2).


Patrick is still using the same release numbering system, though he decided to skip version numbers 5 and 6 for silly marketing reasons. Slackware 4.0 was succeeded by Slackware 7.0.

411a12cfe3d9bb9b3b5dbea49e1c499d.png

Notwithstanding forays into Solaris, FreeBSD and RedHat (to play with my DEC Alpha Multia; there was no Alpha port for Slackware, but RedHat did) Slackware has been my preferred operating system since the 90's.

Edited by TTK Ciar, 26 October 2016 - 0051 AM.

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#74 Rickard N

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 0231 AM

Has anyone installed LaTeX (texlive in my case) on Mint and got it working with some side packages? I was fiddling with it last week but it was quite cumbersome to get things installed. I don't know if it's Mint or something else (the user for example) that makes it hard but my memory is that it wasn't that much of a hassle last time I was doing these things. Fonts on the other hand was a major PITA.

 

/R


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#75 Murph

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 0558 AM

I am having to reinstall MInt since the people who installed the SSD, just copied and now I have 137 gb of free space that cannot be used, and if mounted shows as an external drive.  Grrrrrr.


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#76 Rickard N

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 0645 AM

Isn't there some tool that can handle partitions?

 

/R


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#77 Ivanhoe

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 0909 AM

I use GpartEd Live for that sort of thing. Its a bootable ISO distro, you can create & delete partitions, resize, etc.


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#78 Murph

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 1940 PM

I just did a clean installation, and now the pain comes from having to re-install everything, and reset all my preferences.  But I love this little laptop.


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#79 CT96

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 1700 PM

Yeah, looking at that list, I think I was in the Slackware 1.1.0-2.0 timeframe. I started with 1.1.0, and ended at 2.0. It wasn't ready, and neither was I at the time. 


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#80 Murph

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 1728 PM

Anyone use or familiar with XFCE?


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